Journey Into The Freljord III: The Troll King

First Riot Post
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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraRising View Post
I have to ask, why have to do a complete 180 on Trundle's lore? Prior to this, he was an honorable and kind character who absorbed a curse of his people. Now, he's just a generic ice-based brute lord.
I'd read the lore a bit more carefully--he's more of a tragic-sarcastic-messaic outcast than an honorable hero.

His tribe got slapped with the disease, but when Trundle was born, he was the only one regenerating through it, so he got picked on for it (IIRC). Then, he took on the entire curse and was the only one visibly affected by it, so he got picked on for it. He smashes through the pain with sarcasm and a gutsy, hooligan nature--and that's what he brings to the League. He's not particularly smart, skilled, or even strong, but he's got guts.

Probably one of the more endearing underdog stories I've read.


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Mad Hit Monkey

Senior Member

03-26-2013

Stop misusing Generic to describe a lack of information.


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Crosstine

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Member

03-26-2013

so, you get traditional trundle automatically if you already own him, but what about if you already have a skin? I love my lil' slugger skin, don't take it away from me please T.T


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Crownface

Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraRising View Post
I have to ask, why have to do a complete 180 on Trundle's lore? Prior to this, he was an honorable and kind character who absorbed a curse of his people. Now, he's just a generic ice-based brute lord.
To be fair, we don't know exactly what kind off buff ice troll he is.

They did kind of get rid of anything and everything that made him what he was before though, and that sets kind of a scary precedent for future art reworks.

It doesn't matter if somehow, you're able to measure that the new Trundle is objectively better than old Trundle, it's really weird and disconcerting that you would completely annihilate a champion's personality and lore because a year or so later, you decide it's not what you wanted and they didn't sell well enough.

Just work on skill balance and improving on the artwork and lore. The fact that you can't tell it's Trundle at first glance should be enough reason to take a step back and be more conservative with the redesign.


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Morningbell

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Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Monkey View Post
Those all sound like great compelling ideas.
Grumpy, while I'm really pleased to hear you say this, it's hard to believe that we'll actually be getting anything remotely "gross" in the future. Between the grossness being removed from Trundle (although I do like the new look!), comments from several Rioters claiming they wished Urgot's default skin was Battlecast (I can look these up if you'd like, I'd hate to misrepresent anyone), no new gross or diseased or unpleasant champs or skins for some time (Kha'Zix is a monster I guess but he's got one of those damn robot skins), I just don't see this actually happening.

Riot's message of late has very much been that gross things are not appealing enough to League players and they are too niche to do. The whole undead issue in Asian countries doesn't help this matter I'm sure.

Anyways, I'd love to see another champ with a similar theme to the original Trundle, but I highly doubt it'll happen, and you saying they are good ideas isn't exactly enough reassurance to those of us who are fans of these ideas when everything Riot has done for at least the past year seems to contradict you.


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woopyfrood

Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
Total bro reasons for keeping Trundle looking like an underdog.
His lore made him a sympathetic character in a way that only an underdog can be, and his design conveyed that perfectly.

Granted, he was still a big savage troll, but his scrawny appearance made him relatable. Even if you make the new Trundle have a similar backstory, you're going to lose that sympathetic impact because he's now just another monstrous thug, who no longer fights in spite of having a disadvantage, but instead fights because he has an advantage.


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Grumpy Monkey

Senior Character Artist

03-26-2013
12 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crownface View Post
To be fair, we don't know exactly what kind off buff ice troll he is.

They did kind of get rid of anything and everything that made him what he was before though, and that sets kind of a scary precedent for future art reworks.

It doesn't matter if somehow, you're able to measure that the new Trundle is objectively better than old Trundle, it's really weird and disconcerting that you would completely annihilate a champion's personality and lore because a year or so later, you decide it's not what you wanted and they didn't sell well enough.
So this is something we addressed with Karma's relaunch and maybe we ca do better job messaging this, but there are different tiers of reworks.

There are visual upgrades like nidalee, soraka, Annie, where only art assets are changed.

Then there are reworks like twisted fate where we change the look and the lore, but gameplay is largely unaffected.

Then there are relaunches, where the character can be evolved from all aspects, lore gameplay and art. Karma was our first. Trundle is qualifying as a relaunch since his new base is different enough from his old base to warrant the "traditional" skin.


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Morningbell

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Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by woopyfrood View Post
His lore made him a sympathetic character in a way that only an underdog can be, and his design conveyed that perfectly.

Granted, he was still a big savage troll, but his scrawny appearance made him relatable. Even if you make the new Trundle have a similar backstory, you're going to lose that sympathetic impact because he's now just another monstrous thug, who no longer fights in spite of having a disadvantage, but instead fights because he has an advantage.
Perhaps Trundle is still relatively small for a troll in Valoran? I share your concern, but until we know his new lore it's not fair to presume we know why he fights.


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Edvard Rubeartis

Member

03-26-2013

There is something crazy about why the original Trundle has, though-be-it a small audience, a devoted, fierce, aggressive one willing to defend his original to the bitter end. Trundle, in his decaying, sarcastic self represents the black-sheep of the League family. Though the family neglects their own, us who know the story love and appreciate the integrity of a troll willing to take the pains of his entire clan on himself, so that they may live a better future. His choice is evident in his appearance, and his regeneration constantly keeping him alive from a curse that would otherwise have killing him and all his kind.

His regeneration is a talent/superpower, and he used his superpower to save, not destroy. That makes him a hero. A hero of people that are burdened with our own everyday curses, diseases, pains, depressions, unfulfilled desires.

Even though he is only a fictional character in a fictional world, Trundle is an Idea.
An Idea that people don't have to live in a world of pain forever.
A hope that there will always rise up Heroes to stand for those who can't stand for themselves.
A dream that even as a lonely, cursed troll among many, someone had empathy enough to take my pains on him...

There are so many religious aspects to this which I will not mention, but the essence is there. I doubt that I grasped the completeness of this idea, and ask anyone who reads this to help me better express what I may have incorrectly or incompletely said myself.

I wish to express the danger of Riot saying that Heroes need to be 'reimaginined' or reworked. Heroes may be old, but they are NEVER old fashioned.


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Luscious Lenny

Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Monkey View Post
So this is something we addressed with Karma's relaunch and maybe we ca do better job messaging this, but there are different tiers of reworks.

There are visual upgrades like nidalee, soraka, Annie, where only art assets are changed.

Then there are reworks like twisted fate where we change the look and the lore, but gameplay is largely unaffected.

Then there are relaunches, where the character can be evolved from all aspects, lore gameplay and art. Karma was our first. Trundle is qualifying as a relaunch since his new base is different enough from his old base to warrant the "traditional" skin.
as of now will sivir, sions even master yi's lore be drastically changed or are you not in charge of that?