@ Riot - Please give Sakura Karma her kimono back!

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ThermoFusion

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Senior Member

03-22-2013

Okay so.. The entire reason that the Traditional Karma skin exists is for the fans whole liked Karma's original look. There is a brand new classic skin with a great new style for those who don't like the traditional look.

So how about people who like the new dress style use the new skins with the new dress, and people who like Traditional dress use the Traditional skin with the Traditional dress. Because that's why it was made...

As far as Sun Goddess Karma, yeah I agree that one doesn't need the full dress. Less dress just fits the general style of that one.

But Traditional Karma exists for the sake of preserving the traditional look. So please make it actually traditional...


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nvmvoidrays

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian NA View Post
I have to admit that I understand the people who prefer the coat, but I cannot agree. This dress is impractical, as it should be. The coat never looked bad, that was never the issue for me. The issue is that this is supposed to be the traditional skin, and everything that brings it closer to the original skin is a good thing, relatively speaking. That is my opinon. Though I will add, that having the dress on sakura makes it bearable no matter the final decision. And I am going to say thank you, again, because you rock. *nods* If the old idle animation returns, I will have nothing more to ask, and I had stopped hoping I would ever be happy with the new skins. Turned out I was the fool, I very much appreciate that XD

Edit: Whoa, instantly downvoted. If you just disagree, sure thing, I don't mind being downvoted for that reason. But if I said something wrong, please let me know, alright?
the problem with adding the dress onto traditional karma is it looks like its rigged exactly the same as sakura karma.

the animations that made for the kimono won't work for traditional karma. they'll look awkward because the coat doesn't look tight at all; it looks like its supposed to flow, but, if its rigged like sakura karma, she'll take dainty steps. that's where my problem comes from. the kimono one doesn't really "move" when she walks. it's really not supposed to. seeing a coat stay plastered to her legs will look really awkward.

tbh, i think it would be better to keep all three skins looking completely different from each other.

sakura karma has her kimono.

sun goddess karma has her loincloth/aztec culture flair going on.

traditional karma has her coat/tabard combination.

i'll say i love how sakura karma looks. however, i don't want to see each of her skins become a copy of sakura karma. that removes the originality of each. right now, all three skins look vastly different than each other and offer a different flair. keep that riot.

riot pls.


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Alex3omg

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Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ququroon View Post
Hmm, it might be possible... But I dunno...

Attachment 642205

Is there no way to close it up and just give her her original dress, with the flare? Why can't you use the original walk animation for Traditional Karma? It already exists, right? I mean, you could LITERALLY just use her original model... right? I don't get why traditional can't have the fans, too. I mean... her original model had some great animations with those fans, so why waste them? If this skin is for her oldschool fans, using that stuff would only make people happier I think...


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Legriah

Junior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bombkirby View Post
You're trying too hard to think of all the bad times. They've done lots of nice things! Like bringing back retired skins for a limited time (voted by the community), making ARAM queues even after they said they were unsure they wanted to do such a thing, working on the Mac Client after they said they were done with it for good, etc etc. Everyone has their ups and downs. No one's perfect!
Agreed. It's been a mixed bag. There are strong examples on both sides, although Riot has been listening to the players much more lately (much to the chagrin of everyone who wanted Goth Annie).

I especially admire this dedication to the fanbase here, since Karma's always been my favorite champion and they seem very open to making her as perfect as they can to satisfy the players who love her.

I'm really torn between the two versions of traditional Karma because they're two sides to the same awesome coin (even with restricted leg movement). Both really well represent Karma, although the traditional Karma in the coat I feel embodies the old school "Karma strut" better than the dress allows her to. And I feel like they'd need to change her whole movement set to make the dress work as well as it did in the original skin, which is just unnecessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex3omg View Post
Is there no way to close it up and just give her her original dress, with the flare? Why can't you use the original walk animation for Traditional Karma? It already exists, right? I mean, you could LITERALLY just use her original model... right? I don't get why traditional can't have the fans, too. I mean... her original model had some great animations with those fans, so why waste them? If this skin is for her oldschool fans, using that stuff would only make people happier I think...
To my above point, they'd have to start fresh with Karma to give her the old animations on this new model without things clipping all over the place. It seems simple enough, but there's a lot that goes into it, especially with the little minutia of her autoattack animations, and individual spells which no longer match the original.

It'd wind up being the effort of a Legendary skin on a regular skin that's going into the vault anyways shortly after release.


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Timeless Yyr

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThermoFusion View Post
Okay so.. The entire reason that the Traditional Karma skin exists is for the fans whole liked Karma's original look. There is a brand new classic skin with a great new style for those who don't like the traditional look.
Except there's people like me that if they have to choose between the 4 skins, they love more the Traditional with Short Dress. I, for one, will play her with that skin, but only with the short dress.
So, no, it's not "the same" playing with the new basic.


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HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex3omg View Post
Is there no way to close it up and just give her her original dress, with the flare? Why can't you use the original walk animation for Traditional Karma? It already exists, right?
Because it would look awful without the fans and it wouldn't "connect" with her other animations.

To all the people who are saying the point of "Traditional Karma" is to be as traditional as possible, I want to ask is it worth it when it looks bad? If in order to make Traditional Karma more similar to the original Karma we have to accept awkward animations and weird textures, is it really worth it? I think the first version of Traditional Karma had already nailed the Karma look anyway, even without being a full dress. And this is coming from a Karma diehard who was absolutely traumatized by the removal of her fans and many other elements of the rework.

The original Karma could afford being in a super tight full body dress because her animations, including her "pimpwalk", all revolved around her fans. She could afford looking small and powerless because it kind of was the point: "I can look like this because the moment I get tired of you I'll just blow you away with my fans". Now that she doesn't have the same weapons, her kit is completely different, and even her concept is apparently completely different, a tight full dress and a strangely uncomfortable/restrained walk animation don't work with her anymore. They don't express dignity and elegance anymore, they just look weird.

I think the first version of Traditional Karma looks much better because she retains her class and elegance while also being able to move freely. Her coat flows with every movement and it gives her an air of regality, she looks intimidating and she stands out on the battlefield. It's something she absolutely needs because without the fans she would just look like a lady in a plain old coat, surrounded by colorful characters with shiny weapons and crazy clothes. What I'm saying is she looks out of place with the full dress, way more than she did before her rework, because with the toned down animations and the dress tightly wrapped around her legs she lacks visual impact. It's a completely different situation with Sakura Karma, because in that case it's very easy to recognize her dress as a kimono and realize that it's supposed to look like that. It makes sense. It's inspired by real life. And it's also very colorful, so it definitely catches the eye. But on Traditional Karma, it just doesn't work.


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Ququroon

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QA Analyst

03-22-2013
16 of 16 Riot Posts

Hey there, Ququ here. Seeing some debate on Traditional Karma's style of dress...

Traditional skins are a new thing for us, but our general goal with them is to evoke the themes of the original.

With Karma, there are a few different directions we could take. The dress version is very fitting to the original concept of who Karma was. The open skirt version is a newer take and has some really cool elements to it, but I think that the dress version keeps with the theme of a real “traditional” skin. That said, we agree that the open skirt is really cool and unique, so it’s something we’re going to keep in mind when designing new skins for her.


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Dobyk

Member

03-22-2013

For me the previous Traditional Karma looked better - more balanced and symmetrical in a way, plus I really liked her stockings and shoes. Even though Traditional Karma didn't have a full dress, it still captured the essence of old Karma visually. Plus I prefer capes to full dresses (although I think Sakura's new kimono is stunning). Plus, the "new" Traditional dress actually mimics the design of Sakura's kimono, which I think only undermines Sakura Karma's originality. If you think about it, both Sun Goddess and Sakura have unique aesthetics. The new Classic and Traditional are the same in design, but very different in colour schemes and execution, and I think this is brilliant - effectively you can choose from two "classic" skins, which are same in style but very different in feeling, and you also have two completely different and unique designs. I think this is a better symmetry, but at the end of the day you decide what works best


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ThermoFusion

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Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Yyr View Post
Except there's people like me that if they have to choose between the 4 skins, they love more the Traditional with Short Dress. I, for one, will play her with that skin, but only with the short dress.
So, no, it's not "the same" playing with the new basic.
Arguably that means you are not part of the demographic that the traditional skin was made for.

My point was about the purpose and target audience for the traditional skin. If it's reason for being there it to recapture Karma's old look, then not including the dress doesn't make sense. Also the traditional skin includes the old voice that includes jokes about the dress. It's kinda all one package.

If the purpose of the traditional skin is to merely give old karma colors to a new look then so be it. But allegedly the target audience is for those who want to play Karma looking like she used to look.


As for comments about the full dress addition not looking right on the animations. Well the whole point of adding it was to try to make it look better. I'd rather see continued effort towards improvement rather than backtracking because the first attempt had some issues.


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kinbountykin

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ququroon View Post
Hey there, Ququ here. Seeing some debate on Traditional Karma's style of dress...

Traditional skins are a new thing for us, but our general goal with them is to evoke the themes of the original.

With Karma, there are a few different directions we could take. The dress version is very fitting to the original concept of who Karma was. The open skirt version is a newer take and has some really cool elements to it, but I think that the dress version keeps with the theme of a real “traditional” skin. That said, we agree that the open skirt is really cool and unique, so it’s something we’re going to keep in mind when designing new skins for her.
Praise the lord. Very happy to hear you guys feel this way.