@Riot, can we actually talk about Janna?

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Doct0r Phil

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-18-2013

I came into this thread just to say that I hope Janna's passive NEVER gets changed. It's something so special and amazing for Janna (and her alone). I think it's one of the passives in the game that almost everyone notices. 3% ms is huge ALL game.

I can take some changes, but I would be very upset if that passive ever changed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shattered Light

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CertainlyT View Post
I'd like to ask you all, some of our more passionate Janna players, about Tailwind, Janna's passive. I don't see many people mentioning it as something they value highly when they think of Janna.

Objectively... It's quite strong -- making Rumble/Skarner faster than Master Yi/Pantheon doesn't just change matchups, it transforms them.

Subjectively... I'm not sure how easily it can be appreciated. What are your opinions?

Also, don't read too much into this. I'm just up late.
Tailwind is great. I notice the difference when I play *any* other champion. The killer is the ad buff loss on shield break. Her shield is what I feel like we should be able to appreciate more than we can.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Henry Plainview

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We're going to be giving Janna a little love, likely undoing one of the nerfs. Statikk will have details when it's done
YEAH FIX THAT BUG YOU LEFT IN THE GAME FOR A YEAr


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

March of Dimes

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Plainview View Post
YEAH FIX THAT BUG YOU LEFT IN THE GAME FOR A YEAr
I'm still hopeful that this wasn't what Morello meant, because it's not actually undoing the nerf... it's more like doing it for the first time.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shinjou Kun

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Bump for the mage who used to have it all.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Moon and I

Junior Member

03-18-2013

I really, really wish they would re-invent her Q and R
her ulti is wayyyyy too weak, there's not even a real reason to keep it going, unless in the unlikely even theres a larger amount of damage about to be unleashes (i.e Karthus ulti coming up, or MF bullet time being used currently)
I would love to see her Q having a higher initial knock-up duration, this would help save your carry pre-6 from a high mobility jungler such as Kha-Zix, Zed, Hecarim, Lee sin, Jarvan etc. because having a clutch Q release Q a player should be REWARDED for quick reactions, instead of having a .75 second knockup shrugged off with a jump, dash or lunge straight to a carry or higher value target.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Uiraya

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CertainlyT View Post
I'd like to ask you all, some of our more passionate Janna players, about Tailwind, Janna's passive. I don't see many people mentioning it as something they value highly when they think of Janna.

Objectively... It's quite strong -- making Rumble/Skarner faster than Master Yi/Pantheon doesn't just change matchups, it transforms them.

Subjectively... I'm not sure how easily it can be appreciated. What are your opinions?

Also, don't read too much into this. I'm just up late.
Best passive in the game. I love having it and I love providing it.

I MEAN WAIT I HATE IT IT'S BAD YOU SHOULD NERF IT LIKE YOU NERF EVERYTHING ELSE

"Why don't people like playing support? Is it because we nerf supports into oblivion every patch? Is it because they're all so weak as a group that we've made games 4.5v4.5 and they can do little without a competent adc (which leads to "why not just adc?")? Janna in particular is nerfed so bad we had to make a new mechanic just to nerf her more and then took six months to make her exactly as bad as we meant but WHY DON'T PEOPLE LIKE PLAYING SUPPORT??"

_
~Uiru


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Madra

Senior Member

03-18-2013

After this latest patch of Janna "buffs", I think we need a new post called '@Riot, can we talk seriously about Janna?'.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Statikk

Live Balance Designer

03-18-2013
3 of 3 Riot Posts

Since there seems to be a lot of confusion about why we made the changes we did to Janna, I'll elaborate a bit.

The bottom line is that we don't believe from an objective viewpoint that Janna is "underpowered." If you look at the numbers and what she potentially brings to the team, Janna holds a unique place in the game and is still a force to be reckoned with.

Is she currently underused and in a weaker point than last season because of the meta shifts around her? Oh most certainly, this cannot be denied. I'll delve deeper into 2 reasons why I believe this is so:

1. AD carries were probably hit the hardest by the Season 3 reduction of high-end item gold premiums effectively reducing their damage at most points in the game. This allows bruisers to dive the ADC with much less risk than before. What was the previous seasons' answer to billions of "unstoppable" diving bruisers? It was the shift to ranged AD carries with defensive Supports defending and peeling for them. This is where Janna shined as a champion who provides strong "burst peeling" in team fights and it is one of her intended strategic strengths.

In essence, the counter to backline divers is to buy your ADC enough time to kill them as they make their way in. With ADC damage down, the burst peeling power that Janna brings for her ADC is simply not as important as it once was since most ADCs are no longer able to outright kill the divers in that amount of time. This can be seen in Season 3 by the rise of diving champions such as Singed who used to be heavily countered by ADCs being able to more quickly out-scale them through damage output.

2. Season 3 from a competitive perspective has recently shifted towards a pushing meta which heavily favors Supports who bring aggressive poke / harass and AoE damage for clearing minions waves. As a more defensive pick, Janna really doesn't fit the bill for the current competitive meta as she is outshined in those categories by champions such as Lulu and Sona.

So it really comes back to this question: given Janna's strengths and weaknesses, should we really be expecting her to be thriving in this current meta? If we tailor her to also perfectly fit this meta, what happens if the game shifts back towards to a meta more similar to when she was dominant? Does she just become the best pick all of the time in all situations?

I admit these are questions even we are not equipped to answer with 100% confidence and it's the kind of stuff we discuss on a daily basis here on the Live Design team.

So all in all, we are taking a slower, more patient approach with Janna as you can see in the 3.04 patch notes. We don't feel like she's severely underpowered or that she needs a big change even though she might not be optimal for the current state of the game. This is why we're opting instead to clean up and enhance her core gameplay such as the charging up of her Q and observing where that goes.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Saikaici

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Interesting news. Awesome that we actually get a follow up when promised.

I always thought a good Janna was dangerous. Maybe we'll see a few more this season after the buffs.