So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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USMCTempest

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Senior Member

03-17-2013

SSoKP


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MercTroop

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Dear riot developers, why did you remove Karma's war fans from her design?

There were two things I really enjoyed Karma for. Those clutch save moments, where your team mate is going to die and you heal them while shielding them. This was because her heal was a skill shot, and hitting a good skill shot under pressure feels better than a direct cast spell.

Other part of Karma I enjoyed was she felt like a mid to close range spell caster. To me it always felt like Karma should always be just a short distance away from melee fighters. Where you want to position your self in just the right way you can heal your allies, but also nuke the enemy at the same time.

It's too bad Karma old passive isn't considered good for game play. It really did feel fitting, she becomes physically weaker but becomes spiritually stronger. Or have her come stronger as her allies get killed off.

I really want Karma to have a team heal in her kit still. It would be interesting if it was added to her tether, with her mantra instantly refreshing the cast. So in theory a Karma player could tether up to three allies at once. Or wade into the middle of the enemy to tether multiple enemies. If more tethers active increase the tether damage and healing effects it would make for some interesting game play on picking tether targets.

I really want her war fans to make a return to her and feel like part of her kit. With her Q no longer healing as a mantra effect it could of allowed her to have some kind of crazy effect. For mantra effect she could of had a knock up, turn her Q into a long range multiple part skill shot with each hit slowing a person with the final hit rooting them,


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ChimpTits

Junior Member

03-17-2013

What will happen with my Sakura Karma skin? D:


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ValkronTheTurtle

Junior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChimpTits View Post
What will happen with my Sakura Karma skin? D:
I saw a red somewhere say that the other Karma skins (Sakura/Sun Goddess) will be remodeled just like the classic


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Trazier

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Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Old Karma had issues. What were they?
We kept the “empowering”-type gameplay of Mantra, but instead of waiting around for it to recharge, Karma’s basic attacks and abilities now lower Mantra’s cooldown.

Passive: Gathering Fire – Hitting enemy champions with Karma’s spells and basic attacks lower Mantra’s cooldown.


I'm sorry, WTF is this sh!t?


"We're giving her the ability to cast spells and attacks to lower her cooldowns... Like ryze!"


(10 seconds pass)


"Actually, we decided she has to hit enemy champions in order for this to work... so she's like taric!... only not tanky, or suited to the task"


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dooku183

Member

03-17-2013

awesome, im gonna miss her Q being able to heal her and an ally though , or is there going to be something that still does that? anybody reply? thanks


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Walkirye

Junior Member

03-17-2013

I'm sad. I like the old Karma. I like the old Karma skin. I like the Karma's spanish fans...


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Cyrran

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Featherfox View Post
This is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. In your opinion, Karma is an AP tank, not an AP mid or full support. The role Karma plays is (albeit very differently) a similar one to Taric or Alistar, with less CC and more shields. Based on what I described, you showed with your concept of play-style that you didn't find Karma's lack of range crippling, and that you found going tank was the proper way to use her (hence getting in close and quite possibly going in first).

You don't consider it a flaw if you get poked down by the enemy team, probably relying on her passive free Rabadons to bait out an attack and swiftly turn the tables with burst damage as they try to go for a kill. It's a gamble though - and does require skill to pull off.

I'd like to hear from more Karma players, but this is an excellent start. A lot of the complaints I've seen are from people who support Karma as AP Mid. That's not typically a tanky role.

Going further - I think everyone can agree that Riot did not intend her to be a tank, based on her passive stats and abilities. However, Karma-tank with that beautiful passive makes her quite useful as a pseudo-initiator support. Not the typical behaviour of a mage though.

I appreciate the reply, and hope someone else steps forward to address the rest of my post. Thank you again for your time, Healurownbum.

- Featherfox
I play her many different lanes. Top/mid/support/ and for a while as jungle (start of S3, she was OP at it. She could spend one second on each camp before moving on leaving the opportunity to go in and steal enemy jungle and force their jungler to not get any experience while you were stealing his, keeping his level down, your level high. Unfortunately, the big minion being buffed by 200 health since has killed her because she can't just go in and spam spells once, now the big minion has a bit of health starting off after the spell spam that it's not a fast jungle. But her ganks were still okay.)

Karma can be built so many ways and work. keeping her q level 1 was what I preferred. Remember, her heal has a PERCENT factor and a base, but since I relied on the percent factor, it made it more mana efficient to keep it at rank 1 for most games. If you're going tank, buying health items is very effective on karma cause she has a shield, speed buff to help break gaps AND THAT PERCENTAGE HEAL. So a high health karma can heal for massive amounts to herself. Warmogs/ Rod of Ages/ Spirit visage. Her heals keep her alive for way too long if you're needing to be the tank, but your team members have the hard CC (Jungle alistar for instance can cover that). Note I don't always build her this way, but I have built her with those 3 items before and she just gets too much health and that percentage heal just heals too much to kill her. She can be also built AP bursty, Aura items (though this makes her shield strength a little lacking) and still be as effective for what her niche is. Still, I don't use her UNLESS the rest of my team has the CC in their kit.

edit: Sorry, I said soul shroud when I meant spirit visage. A 20% bonus to healing, extra health and CDR are all fantastic on 'tank hp karma'


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Rengar Downy Jr

Senior Member

03-17-2013

what will her other skins look like after the change?


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Frostfire20

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Quite frankly, having a kit that encourages you to be a low health to be more effective is both counter intuitive and troll-ish.

There are a few cases where it has worked (Olaf/Tryn) but only because of how limited they are by their melee nature. A ranged caster (a squishy concept) isn't the right place for that kind of mechanic. I appreciate how much you care, but that's not a great expenditure of our design and player-education dollars.
Huskar from Dota is like that. Less health = more damage conundrum. (Also he's a troll to begin with, so trolling is sort of redundant.)

Anyway, that might not exactly be counter-intuitive because isn't Huskar like one of the top 5 best heroes in Dota?