So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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Alyssian993

Junior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobyk View Post
Yes, of course, it's a full visual overhaul! When Karma arrives in PBE in early next week hopefully we will see how the Sun Goddess and Sakura Karma have turned out
OH MY ... great! :3 I'm more anxious than ever hahaha


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SirLapse

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginrai Enerjak View Post
This presents a problem: Karma has no passive when not in the presence of enemy champions. That doesn't sound very fun.

-Ginrai Enerjak
I'd actually want to know the cooldown removal rates. If it's a fair amount, I don't think that it'd need to be effective on minions.

The real problem I'm having is just the Q itself. If it lowers enemy speed normally, I'd want something similar to Nasus' Wither if I'm using Mantra. I suggest a heal that gives a fixed amount over time in a zone as an alternative when in Mantra, since it's much better than some extra slowing power.

I hope Riot doesn't make the same mistake of making W the highest damage scale tool instead of Q.

@ ItemsGuy
Alrighty. It must've been my misinterpretation on the passive you were referring to, so I'm going to have to apologize for that.

Firstly, the 5 stacks. You mentioned attacks, not champion attacks. That leads to the assumption that it's full effect is active as long as there are minions. You didn't clarify that the ability effects move to the ally and cause you to lose the mark in your redesign. You also didn't clarify that Q had to be leveled up before it can have those effects.
As for the Q, it really just leaves great harass potential in your favor. Champs like Xin Zhao can really just demolish through this, but is he a normal champ in bot lane? No, squishy ADC are. It potentially damages them heavily (as a harass) and allows even free farm in the lane.
On W, those two "soft" CC potentially can seal a player. That's the issue, it literally seals them up. Combine with champs like Blitz and they're hooked back to die. ADC like Varus only have Flash as a tool left, and that just slams them very harshly if they can't run/use any tool to run. Just a silence or slow separately would be considerable. You mentioned Cho, but he only proves my point that all silences are afflicted without extra effects to seal up the opponent in just one move. The effects would have to be very low for having both either way, it's just not effective in that state.

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But, I digress:
I remember reading a guide before on how to play Karma, and it wasn't centered around major support play like the others in the same archtype. This redesign however, grinds into a no longer offensive take, but a massive defensive take. I'd like to ask how that helps the jungler in a solo top situation, because it looks like your skill set is restricting her purely to bot lane with a partner already doing the work. And you didn't talk about one of my other points, on how that setup isn't effective if she's behind. Naturally, I'm considering average AP rates this time, but I'm still coming to the same result. She has practically 0 offense, and that doesn't play well with multiple situations such as chasing (which the old one can at least do) and turret defense. Heck, even running away from fed Graves seems impossible.
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Back to the point:
If Riot's version is foreign for being overly offensive, then I can also consider yours foreign as well for being overly defensive. I did enjoy reading your concept, but the mixture of [actual] offense and defense was more of what I was looking for. Her current Q is extremely offensive, but the heal is the defensive take. Her current W can be treated as either. Her current E has a defensive take, but the shield damage is the offensive.

Just that mix is what made me like her, and I don't see Riot incorporating that into her Q or W. The E was nicely done. The passive could be better, but I'd need tests that only Riot can do to double check the ideas I have (which gives them credibility). If they could just give that balance of possible choices to make with your Mantra (which should be different), then I'd be loving this update so much.


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Amadaun the 0th

Junior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xshu Bastion View Post
Could we get an official statement regarding Karma's change from a lithe, somewhat realistically proportioned woman to... Ahem, the look people tend to think of when they imagine female champions in LoL? I was happy to see a champion who wasn't falling out of her top with Quinn, and I'd heard Riot was going to be attempting to incorporate more body types and variation in general among their champions. Sure, you can say that the Legacy skin is there for people who prefer her old look, but the bottom line is that once the skin out out of the store, you're replacing a smaller breasted, modestly dressed champion with ANOTHER champion who has big breasts/hips and a willingness to show them off. Frankly, as a female player, this game is starting to make me a little uncomfortable. That's not something that happens to me easily.
THIS.
Karma is a spiritual leader, as well.
You don't see the Pope spilling out of his gown, do you?

Joking aside, this is something that seriously disappoints me.
I do not want to see a ****-and-ass champ spilling out of a kimono. I loved how she wore it traditionally, and the Japanese lanterns and fans in her costume.
How was this visual change an improvement (beyond removing the tacky eyeliner stripes)?

I do agree that she needed a visual update (I hated her base skin), but this was a step in the wrong direction.


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FrozenMistninja

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Recruiter

03-16-2013

If you want Riot To Keep the FANS that Karma holds as weapons, In some form or another, taunt, joke, recall, dance, revival then please keep posting. Riot doesnt understand that the FANS she holds are a symbol of all of the old Karma Players! Because we are The FANS. If you are in the cult of Karma DieHards, then lets get keep letting Riot know! Riot has a very nice history of helping us out when we let them know what we want! Keep the fans in some form Riot, we supported what many called an unfinished champion for 2 years, so please make this sacrifice for us and show us you support the minority of us as well!


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TheEnygma

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenMistninja View Post
If you want Riot To Keep the FANS that Karma holds as weapons, In some form or another, taunt, joke, recall, dance, revival then please keep posting. Riot doesnt understand that the FANS she holds are a symbol of all of the old Karma Players! Because we are The FANS. If you are in the cult of Karma DieHards, then lets get keep letting Riot know! Riot has a very nice history of helping us out when we let them know what we want! Keep the fans in some form Riot, we supported what many called an unfinished champion for 2 years, so please make this sacrifice for us and show us you support the minority of us as well!
cause that totally worked out with Christmas Kat recall


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ChoGath loves u

Junior Member

03-16-2013

Am I the only one who noticed that the things above her head change their shape? Is it going to be some sort of an active skill or is she getting a new ult?


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Echito

Junior Member

03-16-2013

A simple question to anyone who can really answer this, Is that a ouroboros between the wing-like things floating between her back? If so that's awesome!


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The5lacker

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softspoken View Post
Edit: But, Karma's mantra isn't exactly an ability in isolation: it has to be used with/as one of her other abilities. It is also available from level 1. So I'd argue that mantra ties through enough of her kit for this to work.
Both Karma's Ult slot and Passive slot are used up by the same ability. This is bad. Her Ult isn't an ability in isolation, and her passive isn't...anything. It is literally just a function of her Ult. That's all her passive is. And that's what the problem is: For all her new functionality and potency, she's now the only champion without a passive.


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Whyumai

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The5lacker View Post
Both Karma's Ult slot and Passive slot are used up by the same ability. This is bad. Her Ult isn't an ability in isolation, and her passive isn't...anything. It is literally just a function of her Ult. That's all her passive is. And that's what the problem is: For all her new functionality and potency, she's now the only champion without a passive.
Renekton.

your move.


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ross0520

Junior Member

03-16-2013

Does this update have an expected date of launch?