So, about that Karma leak...

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Zovea

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softspoken View Post
But, Karma's mantra isn't exactly an ability in isolation
IT SHOULD BE. Giving Karma a passive that should have been slapped onto her ult is just sloppy. This rework make her the only 7 skill champion that doesn't have some benefit for the lack of a functional ult.


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Faptain Teemo

Member

03-16-2013

Can someone tell me right quick: How many charges of Mantra does Karma have? I can't find where it says but I'm thinking 1


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GonefishingX

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirLapse View Post
@ Gone
The fact that you played for the theme was nice, but the lore was what represented her theme, not necessarily the skills (although the skill names can relate). Your way of trying to relate skill use to the theme itself is ineffective, the playstyle for many of the champs in the game are based around archtypes such as Support, and since a meta is already in place, it has to change in order to combat that.

The major problem with your entire argument is that her skills should be both beneficial and hurtful. CC is always helpful for the team, and that's exactly what Q and W do. They don't have to directly affect your teammates, which your argument seems to almost avoid as a possibility.

And lastly. Do not assault people on the forums. They have a right to say that skills are situational (even TOO situational). "Underpowered" signifies that she can't keep up with the meta, and since you're not considering this, you're just one of those people holding back Karma's potential to improve by implying that she shouldn't have been changed if you had known this would happen. Remember that this is a game.
I don't want to see her theme lost. She was unique and interesting, there were many ways to keep her up with the meta and they chose a total ability rework. I'm fine with that, but her new abilities do not reflect the way her character was designed to play. I want Karma to be better I just don't want her to loose what made her interesting to achieve this.

What I was trying to point out was made karma wasn't simply her Mantras. It was the dual nature of her abilities and how they could be used in two distinctly different ways. The rework seems to have removed that entire feature. Her new Q and W have done away with the options and only give you one way to use the ability instead of a multitude of ways. Thankfully her E has retained enough of her theme and I'm glad.

My statements about the dual uses of abilities is key to why simply giving her CC on her Q and W and calling it 'helpful to the team' is not enough. Her previous iterations of these abilities could be used on both foe and friend and had distinct benefits to using those ways. Whenever you used her old Q you had a choice, do I use it for damage, for healing or try to get as much of both. Whenever you used her old W you had numerous choices about whom you should target, because not only does the tether slow and speed up but it also deals a large amount of damage. Both her new replacements feel lackluster and without any depth. Mantra was supposed to allow her abilities to do unique things and change how they interact with both allies and enemies, the Mantra forms for both her new Q and W are just simple boosts. I'm not saying traditional Karma was without problems. The original W was also uninteresting to use with Mantra with.

Change is fine my me, Karma could use more CC to help her support bottom. Except they are removing everything interesting about her abilities. When I play Karma I play her because of the choices she allows, the 3 abilities she currently has give me more diversity than almost any other champion. This rework looks to be removing the essence of Karma; choices.


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gartho33

Junior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Can someone tell me right quick: How many charges of Mantra does Karma have? I can't find where it says but I'm thinking 1
curently 2... new karma... should be 1


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Faptain Teemo

Member

03-16-2013

Thx

I hope the cooldown isn't too high normally.


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Melancholy Exile

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginrai Enerjak View Post
This presents a problem: Karma has no passive when not in the presence of enemy champions. That doesn't sound very fun.

-Ginrai Enerjak
Just like Irelia, Katarina, Sivir, Vayne and Wukong.

You could also make a case for Kha'zix, were it not for his Evolved Void Spikes.


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FNsquirrel

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
W: Focused Resolve Enemy-targeted tether that deals damage over time. If the tether is unbroken after a short duration, the tethered target is rooted in place.
  • Empowered by Mantra: Renewal Deals bonus damage and heals Karma for the duration of the tether.
I am looking forward to the rework. However, I am disappointed with Focus Resolve. With it tethering enemy champions, but not allies. I know it's not the greatest ability on her right now. However ,it did help pull people out from hard jams. I think would cool if Karma could tether an ally, both gaining movement speed and if the tether is not broken a heal to both Karma and the linked ally. Mantra version would gain bonus movement speed or allies gains health regen. (could a bit op, though)

You know what, I really do think that in order for Karma to be "karma" like, her abilities should have an offensive and defensive aspects. Take Hel from Smite ( I know I am stepping into dangerous territory here, but stealing ideas from different games is what this game genre does) She as two forms as mage and support. I would like to see Karma players having to decide from either doing damage or helping her allies survive. She kinda does this now, but her only descent damage maker is her Mantra shield. Random thoughts


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Appull

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Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faptain Teemo View Post
Thx

I hope the cooldown isn't too high normally.
It will be. Right now they are calling Karma op even though she IS the hardest champion to play(hence the small and devout following) so this "rework" is nerfing her into the ground to make her so more players can play her and to keep us from using her in an over powered way. Even though the harder a champion is to play the more reward you're supposed to get from it. They already said "normal ult cool down" so that means 40-70 seconds before you can use it again. And now she can only do damage instead of healing, sooooo nerfing her so hard its not even the same champ.

I mean how can you give it the same name when you even have to change the lore lol.

EDIT: this is essentially riots way of ending the Karma discussion once and for all, now nobody will want to play her.


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Ruthless Sophie

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardalador View Post
Um, why are people so sad about the taking away of the fans when they're getting the classic skin for free???
Even if they love Karma SOOOOO MUCH, but don't own her and buy her after the rework comes out, the fans are available for two weeks. I'm sure if Karma means that much to you, you will buy it by then.

Well becuase when you say we are getting the classic skin for free.... when in reality we are having our classic skin replaces with something else.... and anyone can still buy the skin so it looses the meaning of "I played Karma before this bull**** happened."


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GonefishingX

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Dear Riot,

How to fix Karma;
her W slows 25% - 50% and speed up allies by 10 - 20%
Mantra'd W stuns any enemy who passes through the tether.

I have now fixed Karma