So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Edvard Rubeartis

Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoresuMakashi View Post
Time for some analysis.


Fair enough, it was an issue.


The Mantra "buyback" is an interesting idea, although I think it's already been done multiple times in LoL and isn't particularly thematically appropriate for Karma, and certainly not as thematically appropriate as her old passive.

I understand why you made Mantra one charge from a balance perspective, but I still disagree with the idea that the old Mantra wasn't fulfilling. The constant decisionmaking behind her old ultimate was great from a enjoyment perspective, it's just that the feeling of accomplishment derived not from making a single good choice, but a series of calculated and dynamic moves.


I thought she was meant to be an all-rounded champion, decent at both offense and defense but not a master of either. I strongly disagree that her abilties "never felt like the right choice". In a balanced teamfight, all of her basic abilties can come into use, while Mantra could turn her kit into a triple offense or triple defense kit in other circumstances (chasing and retreating). While she might seem to lack direction when compared to other champions, when you consider her by herself and from an internal perspective, there's no reason why her balanced gameplay is a bad thing, and you realise that it has its own appeal (just of a different sort).



True, most people didn't know how to work with Karma, and that was crucial to her success. However, I don't think that this was a problem with her kit at all. If she had been a top competitive pick, everyone would have known what exactly what her tether did. Therefore, I see this issue as a balance thing rather than a fundamental flaw.

Accurate description. But although tether might indeed have worked better on a tank, that doesn't mean that it should be. Abilties should be judged by their ability to create interesting gameplay, not by how suited they are. I mean, Bullet Time would work best on an AP (it locks up MF from autoattacking), Hallucinate on an ADC (!!!), etc. etc. etc. but that doesn't mean that that should be used as an argument against MF or Shaco's kit.



Sounds good.


I'm yet to see the numbers or the kit working in-game, so I won't be judging based on balance. Frankly, there are other more qualified than I am for that job. But I MUST mention one thing: her passive. I don't understand... in what way is this thematically more appropriate than her old passive? Bonus AP the lower health you were screamed the concept of willpower and hope. This new passive is an example of an existing mechanic that seems to have little link to her themes. It lacks creativity and forethought IMO.

As a final note, is there any chance we'll get to see what Guinsoo's version looked like? Just idle curiosity.
SoresuMakashi, you took the words right out of my mouth. THANKS A MILLION! ^^


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Inganni

Junior Member

03-15-2013

Very few played her and you fix it by showing more skin.

Woot. :/ The worst part is this will actually work.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SoresuMakashi

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Grimalkin View Post
This is quite curious, as i think the passive still fits if you read into the actions a bit?

I'm thinking of it like this; as karma continues to fight on against champions she brings the hope that if the team can rally and stick it out just a bit longer, karma can deliver in the form of her ult, which has received a massive boost in team-fighting power, and turn the tide with a monumental spell. It seems to inspire the idea of the people rallying with karma when she chooses to stand her ground and fight, and knowing when to relent when she falls back. She is a pillar, a leader, she brings hope through her will to fight on while at the same time knowing what is best for her people and will withdraw when it suits them.
Okay, I admit that I didn't think about this. But I'd need to see the numbers on her cooldowns before I could say that this argument is valid. If the CD is way up in the 60+ second range, there's simply no way that you'll pull off 2 Mantras in a fight. Even if you could, I would still feel that her old passive was more appropriate.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AbsolutionJailor

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but do the Mantra'd abilities share cooldowns with their normal selves (like Karma on live where their next cast is simply enhanced), or it it like Rengar, where the Mantra readies three enhanced abilities that do not share cost/cooldown with their normal forms?

Basically, I want to know if I have to wait to R>E a target if I just recently E'd them. Would a combo like E>W>RE take 1s or 10?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Inflexions

Senior Member

03-15-2013

targeted leblanc e

riot games


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Appull

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-15-2013

if her ult is a 60second cool down they are just going to make it so NOONE plays her instead of just her few. if you can't get more than one off during a teamfight when her mantra bonus isn't that significant then there is 0 point to her unless her ap ratios are ridiculously high. I'm just hoping there are some REAL karma players in the PBE that can riot actually listens to because from what I'm seeing. Anyone who has played Karma correctly hates this update. Only the people who used her as support -cringes- or were terrible with her like this update. I'm not saying she didn't need anything. certainly a QoL was needed. but trashing a champion with possibly the most passionate following just because not everybody can play her is a terrible idea. There's what 104 champions? boo hoo you can't play one. That's not our fault and not a reason to tare our champ apart.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

dirtysanchez1

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inganni View Post
Very few played her and you fix it by showing more skin.

Woot. :/ The worst part is this will actually work.
http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws....itional_SS.jpg

Least skin I've seen in a champion for a long time. One leg in her artwork is not a sexually appealing approach.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ************1 View Post
http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws....itional_SS.jpg

Least skin I've seen in a champion for a long time. One leg in her artwork is not a sexually appealing approach.
Do you realize that is not her default skin?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hollywood Cool

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
She's actually been doing very well as a support from internal tests. Statikk and JHa, two members of Live Design that play supports quite well actually -prefer- her as support. She's not your 'sit-back-and-heal' kind of support, but one that gets in your face - after all, Gathering Fire rewards players who are able to calculate aggression inbetween Mantra CD's, and support is a natural place for her to apply pressure to the enemy lane and protect her ally. Even as the game goes on, Soulflare and Defiance are great teamfighting tools - so i'm not really worried about this. Endgame she can even pick up Wota, Twin Shadows - even a soulstealer (!) and benefit pretty well from the ability power to be a supplemental damage force (Sightstone/Philosopher's Stone/Liandry's Zyra, anyone?)
I'd like her to heal allies too. Maybe a small heal could be afforded to allies who walk into the tether? Like a Sona heal, that kind of power


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Silver Grimalkin

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoresuMakashi View Post
Okay, I admit that I didn't think about this. But I'd need to see the numbers on her cooldowns before I could say that this argument is valid. If the CD is way up in the 60+ second range, there's simply no way that you'll pull off 2 Mantras in a fight. Even if you could, I would still feel that her old passive was more appropriate.
Well yes, we would need to see the numbers to pull of two mantras per teamfight, but I never really said she needed to pull off two haha? I was actually thinking more in the idea of karma's team being caught unaware while her ult was down but not by a drastic amount and her standing to fight from a disadvantaged start would be the truly inspiring notion. Sorry, I probably should have made my hypothetical more clear than my vague terminology.