So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

03-15-2013
39 of 43 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mappy4ever View Post
Did she get a Range buff? Cause 425 was problematic!
Oh yeah, this is probably important to mention - Her AA range is 525 at the moment. Not gonna give homegirl incentives to aggressively AA and keep her at the old numbers! Take Inspire and level 1 and enjoy just training people with her super awesome auto attack!

Also i've edited the main post to clarify, but Inner Flame is AoE. The slow and damage is applied around the unit you first strike with it, making it possibly to trigger Gathering Fire multiple times if you manage to snipe a group of enemy champions!


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FrozenMistninja

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Recruiter

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Maybe so, but I think if that's the only price we pay (and with the new rig, the fans had to go), I think it's extremely minor for the gains.

Make a poll please, because as much as I honestly respect your opinion Morello, I think the diehard karma fans all hate the idea of losing it, and will never feel Happy knowing my favorite champ is being fixed due to the "majority" of LoL players thinking shes ****.....I can play karma anywhere but jungle and do better than 99% of any yi, teemo, or tryn, but karma gets a bad rep......Blows my mind.


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HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by limbrok View Post
Sorry, I think you took some things out of context, and I only provided one example. I think Karma will be similarly utility-wise to Lux. The place where Karma is a better pick than Lux is that Karma can deal with close-range pressure much better and probably will have a very solid lane phase.

Karma already does well against people like Akali, Diana, etc. mid. Anyone that jumps into range to deal burst damage. Karma will still have this strong counterpick, but she will not only do it better, but still be viable in other match ups where it wasn't in her favor before with ability to do damage on her Q and W for ranged harass, as well.

I still feel like her strong point will be in her R & E combo though to counter assassins mid. That's what I was trying to say, my apologies.
Ah, sorry, I guess I misunderstood you then. But no one really wants Karma to be OP, just viable, really.

The R&E rework seems nice on paper but I'd really have to see the values, ratios and cooldown. Maybe it's half the shield/damage she has now, and that would be incredibly disappointing. Or maybe her Mantra is on a 60 sec cd so she can't use it nearly as often as before. So I'm still very worried.


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limbrok

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Trooper View Post
I really dislike the passive change. It should have stayed the same with her new passive just tacked onto R. Her passive gave that very yin-yang feel more then anything else and was great for clutch plays. Is there a reason why it was changed to this new one?
Her kit is probably already strong and she's probably getting better AP Scaling which would make her old passive even more powerful in certain scenarios.

It's probably a tune-up to make CDR less of a necessity for her while also keeping her at a somewhat balanced state without being too under or overpowered upon release.


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chumbler

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thresmic View Post
Here's the problem i have with this...
This rework is only happening because her numbers are low which means riot isn't bringing money in off of this champ. If 1 pro-mid or pro-support played her in LCS and did well, then this wouldn't be happening. This rework is unnecessary, her kit was fine, Honestly all she needed is a bit of balancing. or if anything is being reworked it should had just been her W. This honestly disappoints me.
Wouldn't be happening if money was being made off of her.
No, the rework is happening because current Karma is utter garbage and has been for two years. Pros have played her. They then decided that she was so awful that they would never play her again. I always have to laugh at these "Well just wait until a pro support plays her!" posts, because that already did happen, and the result was not what those posters want.

If you think old Karma is good, you are bad. Like on the same level as people who insisted release Zyra was weak.


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Emperata

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Member

03-15-2013

I think the W change alone is whats saving Karma here. But I'm not really a fan of the change to her Q, seems like a pretty boring skill, but I guess we'll have to see some numbers first. All I would wish is that if she uses her Mantra, she can immediately cast an empowered skill instead of waiting for a cooldown, kind of like Rengar at full charges.


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Ezran

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Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZetsubouFallen View Post
Riot did the same with Katarina rework, another nerf to the kit.

So..you just removed the Heal from Q, and made W a root instead of a slow.
This was funny because Katarina was considered OP for a while, and Riot slammed her new kit with a few pretty hefty damage nerfs because it was too strong.

Let's just wait and see how OP/UP it is once she's released.


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Eiales

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Senior Member

03-15-2013

Why doesn't she have a passive?


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Wyl

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Senior Member

03-15-2013

Looks interesting !

I'm one of the few that plays Karma quite a lot. I liked her nuances for the most part, and I agree that the most difficult thing is to actually have a team that knows what your character does. However, the fact that she was heavily underplayed and undervalued didn't help that fact at all


I'm worried about some things here though.

1 ) Where is her support role ? I don't see with that leak that she will be able to return back to bot lane and be a real support. If anything, she's going to be a weaker version of Janna/Lulu. Where is her heal ? I doubt she's going to compare with other Utility Mages that can go Support like Morg, Lux, or even Orianna. You more or less trashed her Support role to allow her a clearer Mid lane capability, except that she already had a clearer Mid capability but a subpar Support capability which could have been saved and enhanced.

2) I think I understand why her passive has been changed, but I'd like your thought process on this. Was it because it didn't feel totally right on her ? I always thought it was weird that a peace/harmony Symbol would grow stronger if weakened. I also kind of like her new passive, with the right numbers, it can make her graceful in a battlefield as I always envisioned her to be.

3) I applaud the fact that her tether now deals DoT on the target, what I disdain though is the ending snare; just how does that fit in her kit. It could be a damage reduction at the end (determination break), or a stun (mind-break), but why a snare ? Additionally, does the tether still deal damage to enemies hitting it ? That's a cool feature that I'd be really sad to see go away.

All that said, I applause the hard work the whole Riot team has been putting on it, I'm just sad that my Karma isn't as awesome as she could get. Unless I'm just being an overzealous person and whining a bit too early. That being said, I'm happy still



For reference, here's a link to my balance thread, if you want to see what I thought would be great on Karma, I now see that some of the points aren't amazing, but whatever : http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2422094


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MrTharne

Senior Member

03-15-2013

I just realize that if you want to invade, she's broken, i mean E@mantra is just insane lvl 1. (even more than before)