Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
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mb9023

Member

03-13-2013

I've seen this mentioned quite a few times but I think it's really the only thing I would like to see - some type of role preference indicator. Whether it's an editable text box that's displayed to your team (could be abused obviously) or some kind of drag/drop role preference list "Mid/Top/Jungle/Carry/Support" and you can just shuffle them around. I think it would be a huge help in select to see what other people are most likely going to pick first and you can plan accordingly without making a big deal about it.

This would also hopefully eliminate the "call order" problem, as everyone already has "calls" in place. Of course people could still ask for their 1st position if someone else higher than them has the same 1st pick, but I think it gives them more of a right to say "no" and move on.

I think this should at least be the first thing to try, as it doesn't really change anything *too* much, and I can't really see any negative implications from it that we don't already have. The only other thing I'm leaning towards is a vote-kick, which would definitely have to be unanimous, but would also definitely have to be disabled if you're in a 4 person party so not to be abused. Something to think about still.


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SummonerMan Matt

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

@Lyte I would really like a response on this suggestion since it has been bounching around my head for a bout a year now

In draft pick wouldn't it be nice if you could click on a champion before you turn. Your icon would changed to a greyed out icon of that champ. It could quickly communicate what you intend to pick. With a quick glance of your team you could see who intends to go what role and what champ. When it becomes your turn to pick you still have the option to change the champ ( it doesnt lock in). Of course if someone else picks/ban your champ your icon would change back until u click on a new champ. I think it could help commication a bit.

I honestly thing Guardsman Bob came up with this idea but I think it makes perfect since.


On a unrelated note, if 4/5 player wanna quit a game before 20 mins. Why must we wait? Say you have an AFK/DC/Troll. I understand some people would say "GG FIRST BLOOD /ff" but I doubt they would get 4/5 people. I really doubt you would get a 4/5 vote often enough for it to be a problem.

Lyte pls


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Iridos

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
The question is, "Is it possible to design a game feature that reduces the impact of RL context?"
No. But what should be possible is designing a game feature that redirects the impact of RL context. There's already a team of enemies for you to fight... this is a PvP game, after all. The question should be, when people are frustrated for reasons outside of the game, why do they direct their frustration at teammates instead of the enemy team?


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Gøëthë

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Here is my take on the issue,
People are trying to decide if they should separate queue based on roles, skill or even by lanes. This is problematic because it doesn't fully address the base issue.
As an example, people don't play mages because they reeallly want to play in mid. It's just a lane, and often people are willing to move up to the top lane, just so long as they get to play the champion that they want.
The game itself has tags set on each champion, based on what they 'count' as, and I think this system should be used for more than sometimes navigating the store or the large pool of champions in your profile.
Perhaps the tags need to be updated in a new way, to more accurately express what the characters do well, but they should not be changed to reflect the names of the roles dealt with in today's meta.
Fighter, for example is a good tag because it states that this champion can get into fights. This is accurate and works on say Vi, but not necessarily on Nami. (I'd even advocate for a duelist tag)
The way this could impact champ select and such is that outside of queue, there is a tag in your profile or wherever Riot deems it should go, wherein you simply check tags on a list to indicate what you are willing to play.
This means that after your 'bad' day, you can go into your profile, tag 'Mage' and 'Mage' only, and go into champ select.
The algorithm for this might have to be really robust but by having picked only Mage you will ideally be placed with people who have not picked 'mage'.
In order for the algorithm to put people together without enforcing a meta is to say that the full combined amount of 'tags' between all 5 must hit a certain minimum of unique tags.
Say player one only selects 'Mage', but player two picks 'mage, fighter, duelist, healer, tank. Players, 3-5 pick tags, etc. Then these players have been put together because the amount of unique tags chosen allows for a robust team.
This lowers the chance for quirky compositions, but perhaps that can be an option in your profile. (I.E. looking for 'x' tag) You could potentially pick only mage, and say looking only for mage, and you just might get a full team of mages.
The amount by which you restrict your matchmaking profile might/should affect your queue time, I don't know.
Once the team is made, pick order should be decided by most restricted (picky, choosy) to least restricted (I'll fill, play anything).
Teams will not always be perfect, but I think that the tag system in a matchmaking profile would most adequately address all of our concerns.


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Soviet Mudkip

Senior Member

03-13-2013

1. Another problem I think people aren't addressing is the fact that there are sometimes those few people who queue up then AFK for champion select. They get randomed into a character and come back when it's too late then end up losing their lane because of lack of want or skill in playing the champion. There should just be an automatic option where if a champion isn't chosen at the end of the timer, the match disbands similarly to if someone left.
2. In my personal opinion, I think anyone and everyone who queues up for ranked should have atleast 1 champion per lane that they have under their belt. This ideally isn't difficult because there are multiple champions which have the ability to play jungler/top, support/apmid, etc. The "WoW Dungeon Finder" has its perks but I'm sure matchmaking will be MUCH slower because a majority of people playing ranked want to play Top, Mid or ADC while Support and Jungler have a lesser ratio in comparison. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just saying it might not be the best route to take. :\


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Schmucky85

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I feel like the inclusion/exclusion of pre-made teams in ranked/other queue's is the beast here.

The vote-to-kick system is a nice thought, and on paper it looks pretty effective. But in practice, it would involve way more targeting, and if you have a negative real-life context AND you get targeted in champ select then kicked, you're NOT a happy summoner.

The Dungeon Finder system doesn't work simply because it forces a certain meta. It will cause the game to grow stagnant after a year. (For those of you who thing meta is stale anyways, it's not. League's meta is highly dynamic. The current meta is the easiest for 5 people to work with, NOT the best, which means it can be beaten, relatively easily if you theorycraft hard enough.

The Prisoner's Island idea has some merit to it, but wouldn't work in a ranked system because it would clash with the ladder/tier system. (I'll get to my ideas for ranked later in my post) However, it WOULD work for normals, provided on PI you were
1) Restriced in chat in SOME way. It would be up to Riot to decide how this would be done, with the most minor restricions being denied all chat, to the extrema of restricing everything to mia's and pings.
2) It cannot be a dungeon. It needs to be possible to get out in a matter of time, not a matter of behavior. After XYZ time, you're put back into normal queue. If you've changed, good for you, you're back! If not, back to PI with you. The reason you couldn't define if a player's behavior is improved is because the first necessity restrict's chat, thus skewing the behavioral results. Plus, if it is based on behavior, the only way to measure this variable is # of reports, and this would be horribly skewed because most toxic players likely tend to report inaccurately.
TLDR for Prisoner's Island So, in summary, for normals I would suggest the PI system, with a restriced chat, and a timed sentence to be placed there.

As for ranked. (And I mainly play solo/duo queue when I play League, for the record.)
For ranked teams, there's no issue, you know your team in champ select it's up to your team to work it out, so obviously I'm only considering Solo/Duo.
The Prisoners Island system would not work because it would clash with the ladders/tier system too much, as has been stated already. However, there is a similar solution that could be implemented for ranked. Pretty simple, banned from ranked for a time. While some may say this simply makes normals more toxic, it wouldn't because of my previously explained idea for normals. Obviously, you would also be banned from ranked if you were placed in PI. I really don't see an enormous downside to this and unlike the other theories, the advantages are worth the downsides of having a toxic Prisoner's Island
TLDR for Ranked Banned from ranked for a time.

Oneclarification. These 2 systems would be precursors to the ban system, it would NOT replace the ban system, and I don't think Riot ever suggested that. It would be easier to get PI'd or banned from ranked than it would be to get banned.

Basically, this system takes the ban system to a different place, while still maintaining both queue types. This doesn't necessarily address champion select specifically, but it makes sense and would likely help champ select as well as in-game interactions.

I would also suggest to Riot a little more reward and refining to the Honor system, but that's a different post.

If you made it this long, and [B]I HOPE RIOT DID[B] then thanks for hearing my ideas.


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Senator Fizz

Junior Member

03-13-2013

I believe there is pro's and cons in all of them:
1. Pros: You can all agree on getting a troll out.
Con: If you have a premade you can gang up on players that did fairly pick before you and have no clue whats going on.
2. Pros: Champion select is more efficient and roles are established before
Cons: You can change your champ role once in the champ select.
3. Pros: The good people are with good people.
Con: Its like adding two chemicals that shouldn't go together, itll explode in your face. Second of all, what makes a toxic player? Everyone can suddenly become mad or angry, Whats offensive to others isnt offensive to some people.
Thats what i think at least.


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Tardis

Member

03-13-2013

#1 is the only one I would consider, but. it should give the person(s) who kicked someone like a mark on a tally. i.e oh this guys kicked 100 people today... maybe he needs to have a time out himself. Yes, getting kicked sucks but if anyone is abusing the system guess what? You get away from that toxic team, sounds like a double win to me.

#2 no one will venture from the 'meta' and no one will play anything but mid and top. Because why play anything else when you can play what you want? ie in current games (80%~ where people don't troll) when a role is taken people will just bite the bullet and pick another role.
I have a feeling after a while you will find that alot of the community only knows how to play 1 or 2 roles instead of all 5.

#3 is and always will be a terrible idea. It will just create an even more toxic environment, yes it will be segregated. But what happens when someone who's actually nice was put in the wrong place.. Yeah not going to be pretty. It will be a cesspool of disgusting players, trying to outrage, out troll and out verbally abuse each other. Not only that but it will encourage this behaviour, 'Oh i'm in trollsville? Cool so I can do whatever I want here? on-hit zilean teleport revive jungle it is then, boy do I love ranked!"


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Elegi

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Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Also, I noticed that you're mixing roles with lanes. Do players care about where they play, or what position on the team they fill?
I think it would be a mistake to work only on one of these axes. The fact that you have to ask that question at all is a sign that they're both important. I think that giving the players a pool of options to choose from, and to let them decide what is important to them as an identifier for their preferred playstyle, is one of the best suggestions yet from this thread.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-13-2013
46 of 55 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuDeuFi View Post
have a solution I think is much simpler that seems on a basic level a good idea. I would say instead of the dungeon queue borrowed from WoW look at the loot system....a roller. Basically in champ select if there is a conflict between who wants what, you roll for it.

Say there is a conflict each side gets a 90 second bank of time for rolling. If there is a conflict you activate the roll and pause countdown. The players who wish to roll click a dice icon or something and a number appears 1-100 or whatever, those who dont roll get a value of zero (those not in conflict) . The highest number gets that role and we move on. You activate the roller again if there is another conflict and so on. Summoners get like 10 seconds to roll (maybe lag issues or something)

The beauty about this is there is no meta-enforcing or pigeon holing. Say the summoner who won the roll sees the champ or champs they use banned and are uncomfortable now they could tell the 2nd place roller they can now take the pick.

As long as going against the roll result is punished via a ban etc, I do not see a problem in this.
This brings back memories of the old Everquest days where tie-breakers were broken with /random 100. I know I shouldn't like the idea, but it isn't terrible