Let's talk about Champ Select

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SamKablam

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

Vote Kick - Players might abuse this if they find that they don't like the champion that you selected for your role.

WoW Dungeon Finder - I like this idea the best. Selecting a role you definitely want can make team composure easier if everyone is assembled and ready to play a certain role. It can also be more strategic too if you can see what everyone's role is. It'll definitely help which champions to ban and create trade strategies.

Prisonerís Island - I like the idea of players being placed in 'corrective' environments, where they have to exhibit good behavior to back into regular queue.


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Ryrok

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I think about champ select more in terms of solo queue, so my observations are more focused there. I don't think I'd like to see as drastic of changes as I've seen suggested, but perhaps more iterative changes to the champ select UI that may improve behavior as a result.

Challenges

  • Ranked champ select requires you to own 16 champs, and it assumes you're equally skilled at all of them. You're matched based on your overall MMR, which incentivizes you to play the champ/role you're best at, and leads to stress if you don't get it.
  • Players can't communicate their strengths and potential group synergies effectively. You can't even tell what your team owns, let alone what they're good with.
  • Players often can't express themselves, even if they'd like to. Any solution needs to account for the fact that players in the same lobby may be speaking multiple languages.
  • Bottom-pick players can't easily tell top-pick player who they'd like to play, so the top-picks can align their choices.

Ideas
  • I'd like something, almost like the in-game pings, to quickly give a thumbs up or down to my cohorts choices. Possible even a UI that lets me suggest champions.
  • Before a player queues for ranked, allow that player to select multiple roles and, for each role, up to three champions for that role. Allow us to save this somehow so we don't have to do it every queue. Show all of this information for all players on the team during the idle check, and give no penalty if someone dodges during this time.
  • Allow players to select a up to three champs before their turn to pick, that indicate who they're thinking of playing.
  • Adjust the MMR of the team based on the player's experience with his selected champion - this MMR adjustmet affects LP gains and losses. E.g. if you play a champion or role you're unfamiliar with in order to make the team work, you're penalized less for losing (but awarded less for winning) than if you play your main.

I think the last one is the most challenging. Essentially, ranked solo queue needs some way to account for your variation in skill between champs and roles. I'm willing to play ADC, but I want to make sure my team knows that if they put me there I might feed, and I don't want to tank my LP based on what amounts to luck of champ select.


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Mdhe

Senior Member

03-13-2013

To alleviate some of the meta-normativity of the "Queue-as-role" idea, couldn't we simply allow players to queue as a seventh option? You could have "Mid", "Top" "Support", "Jungle", "Carry", "Fill",--for those who want to play within a composition consistent with the current metagame, but don't mind taking any position--and "Free form". Players choosing any of the first six options would be matched up into a team composition consistent with the current metagame--that is, one Top, one Mid, etc. "Fill" could be matched onto any team with a missing position.

"Free form" players, on the other hand, would only be matched with other "free form" players--but could be matched against anyone. This option would be for players who wish to employ novel strategies or character/position sets. An additional "Strategy" phase before banning occurred would help these players tremendously.

Some will say that having six meta options and a single non-meta option will tacitly reinforce the meta. I would respond that presently, the community is doing a perfectly vitriolic job reinforcing the meta by itself, and allowing potential innovators to all queue together via the "Free form" option might do something to rectify the problem.


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Waffleflies

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Member

03-13-2013

So I was thinking, instead of having honor ribbons on summoner portraits why don't you put some type of tags displaying what roles this summoner excels at based on ranked games or even normals, and what role they would prefer to play (selected at queue up time or in their summoner profile). That way people know going into champion select and everyone isn't racing to call a lane first. Maybe these tags could show how well a summoner does in a role compared to you and the amount of games played, wins, losses etc. Not sure how much detail could be put into these or how much would be too much, for example showing bad stats would probably make summoners want to queue dodge. If their are conflicts in roles they can be discussed among the summoners in chat.


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PhoenixVal

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
We've tested many different queue penalties in the history of League of Legends. If you don't have any penalties at all, queue dodge rates skyrocket. Players leave for many diverse reasons:[...]
2 thoughts I'd like to toss out there.

Paid Votekick
The idea behind a paid votekick is to put in the dodge penalty that Lyte mentions. I think the only appropriate reasons to kick someone are toxicity/afk, which are both reportable offenses. I would make it cost something small (say, 2-5 LP) to vote for a kick. Anyone successfully kicked gets reported for toxicity/afk (you could make the votekick have a selection required just like reporting).

Social-HMMR
I dislike the name of Prisoner's Island. It makes it sound like an isolated place. There is no reason that it needs to be any more divisive than MMR. I don't actually know how matchmaking is done, but my guess is that it looks for people with nearby MMR and expands the search over time. If there were a social-HMMR, the search expansion could be 2-dimensional. The claim has been made that the majority of players are not toxic. The effect here would be that toxic players are somewhat more likely to play with other toxic players (but it is not an island) and they are likely to experience mildly longer queue times. There'd certainly be a need for some tweaking of how quickly each dimension expands, but I think this has some of the benefits of Prisoner's Island, without making it an isolated hellhole that makes people just create a new account.


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MalSatori

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Member

03-13-2013

Some of my best Champ Selects have been when the server was on the fritz and chat was disabled.


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Gospy

Junior Member

03-13-2013

We all rage from time to time.... then there's guardsman bob


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Serendípity

Member

03-13-2013

the problem with the "dungeon finder" is that there are more people who prefer mid and top leaving long queue times for those players, not an ideal situation.


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StriderXplosive

Senior Member

03-13-2013

This reform ideal is for business guys. They don't wanna just ban paying customers (buyers of RP even if they are trolls). If they implement methods of just getting them to quit or keep recreating new accounts then those toxic players WONT BUY RP. Simple as that. The REFORM ideal benefits RIOT not the PLAYERS. As stupid as this conspiracy theory sounds...think about it.

If you suddenly start selling cheap drugs that don't get ur customer high anymore, ppl will stop buying your drugs and u run out of business or just lose a lot of customers. You gotta find a way to keep everyone happy and high on your product so you gotta find a happy medium. Trolls ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS. Some even more then none toxic/team spirited players.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-13-2013
42 of 55 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosreal View Post
Frankly, I believe that extending the champion select time would be a viable solution. I can often convince my teammates to let me go where I want, but if we had more time, I believe communication would increase in the team.

As someone mentioned before, maybe 45 seconds of chat for strategies and roles, before champion select for each team. This would maybe smooth out the process; coupled with a "Vote to Kick" system to kick uncooperative teammates, which would only work on a majority, 4-1 vote.

I know that a counter argument to the "Vote to Kick" system is that others can be bullied to join a queue, but how often do players actually get teamed up with a 4 person premade? Even if it is that often, let's consider, if you're being bullied by a premade group before the game start, then it is a gift to be removed from that group rather than be tossed into a toxic game.
Simply extending the timer in Champ Select does reduce some of the pressure; if we improved how trading worked in Champ Select, this might be an effective start to reducing the friction in Champ Select.

However, extending the timer also increases the time it takes into the game across the board and it potentially allows toxic players a longer time to bully or harass their teammates.

Overall, not a bad idea other than the global increase in time-to-enter-game.