Let's talk about Champ Select

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Lasac

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

@davin @lyte

Champion select would be less toxic if people were more 'connected'.

There is only so much you can do with trying to get strangers to play with one another, especially where ego and blame become prominent.
So find ways to make people more familiar with each other. Maybe have a public note under peoples names in Champion select, they could state their preference of role there if they so choose.

Or you can opt to attack this Champion Select problem not head on, but from behind and make sure it is less horrid getting in there to begin with.

Being that League of Legends is a team game, there should be more initiatives to encourage team play and group forming. As in maintaining sustain groups for series of games. If you can turn more groups of people from a bunch of strangers into a pre-made over the course of a series of games, the number of toxic champion selects could be reduced.

Switch the focus from Solo-queue to Ranked 5s. A single persons trying to prove their worth in a team game can clearly be shown over many games, but what kind of mentality does that create for a community that NEEDS to be more team oriented. How are ranking and statistics focused on "ME" and "MY"progress and "MY" wins going to help "US"? There needs to be another way to show ones worth on a team than their Solo-queue ranking, this is something I am still pondering.

I mostly play with people I know in person, but I have recently felt that I should fiend and play with more people I encounter. To emphasis, I should friend more people and play with them.

The friends list and "recently played with list" exists, but it is not prominent enough.
It would be convenient if I had the option to WITH THE PUSH OF ONE BUTTON, maybe two, re-queue with the group I just played with or some of them.

I understand that now all it takes is to hit add friend and invite the person to a new ready room, but making all of that possible in the result screen would be one step toward capitalizing on positive encounters while playing League.

I am on the fence with enforcing roles or lanes as WoW dungeon finder does, but something I do think should be examined about WoW is how easy it was to re-queue with the same group. If I found a good healer or tank after a few runs I would eventually add them and make sure to play with them later.
If we needed to find a particular role for an older raid we at least had the option to advertise that our group was looking for someone to fill.

It would be great if the League of Legends chat system could be more robust, or possibly have a way to headhunt for players that would be a good fit for your group more effectively and more prominently.

So promote more pre-made play and give players more effective and positive ways to form pre-made groups even if it's with total strangers.

Although this suggestion does not directly help Solo-queue champion select, is it possible that generating more positive interactions in other areas of the game could splash some positivity into that part of competitive play?

If the goal of competitive play became more CLEARLY to find a group to rank up with as opposed to rank up with yourself I believe League would have less conflict.


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SlightlySuicidal

Member

03-13-2013

Can the role queue people just go back to WoW? Please.

We don't want you to turn league into a MMORPG dungeon. Why? Because that's not what it is. It's a MOBA. It shouldn't have a role queue because that defeats the purpose of playing this genre.


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Sarkhon

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Here's my solution to champion select. Simply add the pre-game and post game chat to the Tribunal and wait and see if that fixes anything. Currently there is 0 incentive for me to be nice in the champ select because I can either get what I want, or I can make them dodge and try again. They can always report me, but when it gets to the tribunal, who's to say that it's even legit that I trolled them? Adding the pre-game chat however, and suddenly you get some context. You get context to maybe why people played poorly (i.e, they got stuck with a role they mentioned to their team they weren't very good/fond of), why they weren't the happiest in game (someone raged at them for locking in w//e), and most importantly, you give the solo players protection from Quad Queu of doom where they force you into a position you don't want to play, or trolling you when you are first pick/first ban first call and you lock in something that they wanted to play.

TL;DR - Pre-game chat and Post Game chat. See what results that yields first. Get the hidden toxics out of the game.


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Status Kwoh

Producer

03-13-2013
30 of 55 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingers135 View Post
So I'm gonna try and work with you. The key note here is co-operation, right? So let's look at the differences between offline cooperation and online cooperation.

Offline, there are consequences to your actions. People will recognize and remember you for behaving badly.

Online, there are no consequences for your actions. There are millions of people on League, and odds are slim that you'll be matched up with very many people that you've played with again. And even when it happens, odds are slimmer that you even remember you've played with that person before (I pretty much only remember people with weird usernames lol).

This leads to a divide in perceived risk - "Oh, well if I act like a jerk to these guys in champ select, nothing bad can happen to me. Nobody can punch me in the face for acting like a jerk. Nobody can decide they don't want to be around me anymore, we're stuck together until the end where we'll then part ways forever anyway."

If we think of champ select as just another part of the game, during that stage the 4 other members on your team are really your enemies - they are potentially standing in the way of stopping you from getting the role you really want to get. This leads to the evolutionary stable strategy of being an *******. There's no counterplay for it. More often then not, being an ******* leads to increased rewards for the *******. As long as the environment is set up to facilitate this risk/reward imbalance, toxicity in champ select will continue to exist.

So we've identified the problem - imbalanced risk/reward in favor of toxic players getting what they want. To identify the solution, we need to find a task that balanced risk/reward back in favor of non-toxic players, while not giving these toxic players any more tools to avoid having to cooperate.

As has been stated, vote kicking gives power to toxic players as well as normal players. However, the vote kicking system still only gives power to the majority - whether they are "toxic" or "normal" matters not to the system. In this regard, you can consider the vote kicking system a scalar increase in "power" (ability to get the role they desire) for both sides of the spectrum. This does not balance it, however. Being an ******* will still get you what you want if the majority of players will not ally against you. And you can be a normal player and get punished by a majority of toxic players.

The way I see it, in order to give power back to the normals and take some away from the toxics, I would suggest a combination of two things:
1) A tribunal rating system where players more oft reported have a higher tribunal score
2) A FULL switch to a pick-order dominated system. Call order will no longer matter at all. Make it official. And then pick order will be organized by the people with the lowest tribunal score (least reports) on top, and going down from there.

This means that players who knowingly act in a toxic matter will steadily see themselves fall down in the pick order ladder, meaning they get to play what they want less and less. This will, over time, balance the "power" in selecting your desired role more towards players that get reported less. This seems, to me, to be the desired goal.

I'd love to hear feedback on this, as I think its a somewhat original idea and I can't think of any negatives to this system off the top of my head, other then that people can still choose to ignore the pick order standard and troll and say MID OR FEED and all that. However, over a period of time, as pick order settles into the collective consciousness of the "correct" way to play, and people realize that being an ******* will get them lower on the totem pole, people will adjust their behaviors accordingly.
Doesn't this just give people who already are prone to toxic behaviors more avenues to act in a toxic manner?


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Xarkanadushak

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
This is pretty interesting. I suspect you'd want the system to automatically provide popular templates or the like in order to not create a giant burden on new players.
he's saying they need to be preset so matchmaking can take them into account


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Delimon

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I like que'ing up for a particular role. That way people can play what they want without having to worry about insta lockers and what not.


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Festive Maokai

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I would just like a system where you can check off what role/roles u want to play/are good at and then get matched up with people who don't desire said roles.


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GridironGrace

Junior Member

03-13-2013

randomly order the pick order

player 2
player 4
player 3
player 1
player 5
player 6
player 8
player 7
player 10
player 9

next game it will be different.... pick order = you pick what you want, unless the person higher than u is willing to trade off...

when you q up and u accept the match, instead of clicking accept, you click the available player "#" that the others havent takin and are randomly put into the champ select at that #.

so if you click your # faster you get to pick 1-10, you pick 6, #6 was assigned to summor 7 this game in the pick order so, there you are.


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Yeeehawww

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Well, Riot, you could start by not giving differentiating statements about pick order. I'm certain I've seen at least one Riot employee state on the forums before that pick order was the rule, also in the Summoner's Code it states that players should fill roles, but then recently someone stated that pick order wasn't a rule, and since then I've seen a large increase in people being toxic jerks in queue.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-13-2013
31 of 55 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebop Debs View Post
you guys are not therapists and we are not going to school. Peoples behaviors dont improve because you punish them. Even when they dont get banned again 70% of the time after being in tribunal i can honestly say those kids will still be jerks irl. You need to do what needs to be done and not actually try to "help change toxic players" . This isnt Leagueofacampwegotosothatwecanbehavebetter, its a game not a facility for bad kids that want to behave better
Let's say that we don't care about improving a player's behavior.

In this scenario, players are entering Prisoner's Island, getting frustrated and making smurf accounts and continue ruining thousands of games.

What have we solved?