Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
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Fancy Penguin

Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFOM View Post
2) Dungeon-finder is impossible to implement. Different champions perform different roles within a given team or even a given lane. And even if you queue up by choosing a lane, how do you handle bottom lane, which typically has two people? What if you want to try a lane-swap? What if you want to play double-bruiser bot instead of AD + support? What if you want to double-jungle, Blitzstar style?
.
Ad and support is ad and support even if its top lane. As long as your top can do it thats fine, and you shouldn't be doing it now if your top isn't ok with it.
How many times do you see 2 pubs decide to go ali blitz? I can say over 2k games I've never seen it. And if 2 friends want to, they can que for support and ad and do it anyway. Problem solved.
All the problems with dungeon finder your saying are still in the game the only difference is that you wont have people who don't want duo mid doing duo mid because they refuse to play any other roll.
Not only is this very easy to implement it would solve 80% of the problems with champ select right now and create no new ones.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-13-2013
28 of 55 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebop Debs View Post
Thats gonna be a problem anyway. How can you even make a comment like this and work for riot. Your basically saying "we should just do nothing because there will always be an issue". You have to be willing to try stuff. wow what a disheartening comment it almost makes me feel hopeless that you guys will ever implement a really good feature for ranked que
There is a probably a misunderstanding here!

We want to try stuff. We're going to try some pretty risky and crazy experiments to try to tackle problems in Champ Select. But, we wanted to have a discussion with players about the most commonly discussed ideas we've heard since the player behavior team formed.

We've never had a serious discussion talking to players about the benefits (and costs!) of the most popular community ideas such as vote-kick or Prisoner's Island, and I've been thoroughly enjoying the dialogue and ideas bouncing around.

We've been taking a lot of notes about what players care about, what they don't care about, and what types of ideas are worth more brainstorming. This is a problem we'd like to try to tackle on the player behavior team. We just don't know if the experiments are a combination of multiple ideas, a modification of vote-kick, or a completely new concept like Positive Island + something else instead of Prisoner's Island, but we are most likely going to try an experiment or two.


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Xypheric

Member

03-13-2013

I want to talk first on the dungeon finder system as I am a huge advocate of it. I truthfully believe the system set by lanes is one of the greatest improvements to ranked. You que up for up to 3 roles (top, middle, jungle) if one seems to be underplayed offer an IP boost like WoW offers a bonus. I personally am a Low Elo player … bronze 5, and I don't care who plays what in a specific role as long as they are good at it.

Team composition is hardly a concern when I play solo que at that level. I have never heard a support sona say to pick jayce for his complimentary disengage/ engage.

I think that the overall improved happiness of the system (the reward of playing what i feel like playing) makes up for the restriction to the meta. I do realize that nothing actually forces players to play their role once they get in game except being reported.

For example: I que as support and happily lock in Zyra. Once the game starts I happily skip down midland refusing to move.

Their is also the danger of the game not evolving outside the current meta, but I feel like most of the previous evolutions havnt happened in solo que anyways. To the best of what I have seen it happens in tournaments, scrims, and arams but when people que for solo que they aren't looking to test duo adc/support mid.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Prisoner Island: I was once warned in tribunal and quickly adjusted my behavior. But according to your own numbers breaking the summoners code results in 23% more losses, which would put them in a lower league or even the lowest league. Doesn't that make bronze 4-5 more likely to have players that break the summoners code?


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Xanis

Senior Member

03-13-2013

All 3 at the same time.


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Easter Teemos

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I think the best solution is to introduce an official rule that state that pick order > call order


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BeelzeBuff

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
Well, there's people for whom the big deciding issue is "can I play the champ or role I want" and then there's people for whom the big deciding issue is "does my team comp work?"

The former are happy with any lane/champ/role queuing, I suspect. The latter would still need confidence that they are getting something they want to play with, team-wise.

Add the potential meta-reinforcing nature of a lane/role/gold stream/etc. queue system, and it's an interesting set of issues.

Unless you want to implement an incredibly complex system that queues for roles, and team comps, you can't make it better than queuing for gold streams.


But if you want to implement a system that lets people queue for a role in certain team comps (Like a peeler for a hypercarry ADC. Or a Poker for a poke comp, or a disengager for a disengage comp), then that'd be great. Long queue times, and a very, very, very, VERY, VERY complex system, but hey, it'd work.



But that'd be a hell of a lot of work

when a queue system based on gold streams is much simpler and more elegant.

don't over-complicate it. Simpler is better.


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PillowOfDoom

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Here's an idea that I took from a post on reddit. I, in no manner or form, came up with this idea.

Have a voting system after a que dodge, and before the people que up again. Say, one person of 5 is being a toxic member in ranked que. One of the 4 non toxic members decide to que dodge for the sake of the team. After the que dodge, the remaining 4, including the toxic member have to go through a short survey, saying something like.
"Why was there a que dodge?"
A) Player ____ was being toxic
B) Player ____ had to leave.
C) Player ____ dodged because of another player being toxic.
D) Don't know.

And according to the answer by the remaining 4, the que dodger may get a penalty, for being toxic, or a reduced penalty, such as not losing LP for being the better man and dodging for his team. If the que dodge poll answers with C, there can be another question pertaining to who was the person being toxic, such as

C) Player ____ dodged because of another player being toxic
Which player was being toxic?
A) ____
B) ____
C) ____
D) ____

If enough votes match up to a single summoner being toxic, then that player would get the que dodge penalty instead, with 3LP lost, and a 5min que dodge penalty.
Then, when all the voting is done, everyone is tossed back into que.


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Sarkhon

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
There is a probably a misunderstanding here!

We want to try stuff. We're going to try some pretty risky and crazy experiments to try to tackle problems in Champ Select. But, we wanted to have a discussion with players about the most commonly discussed ideas we've heard since the player behavior team formed.

We've never had a serious discussion talking to players about the benefits (and costs!) of the most popular community ideas such as vote-kick or Prisoner's Island, and I've been thoroughly enjoying the dialogue and ideas bouncing around.

We've been taking a lot of notes about what players care about, what they don't care about, and what types of ideas are worth more brainstorming. This is a problem we'd like to try to tackle on the player behavior team. We just don't know if the experiments are a combination of multiple ideas, a modification of vote-kick, or a completely new concept like Positive Island + something else instead of Prisoner's Island, but we are most likely going to try an experiment or two.
I personally care about having pre-game and post game chat showing up in the tribunal. Idea's?


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C4KE

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hume View Post
One thing I've seen (I think it was Morello?) people say they do to help start champ select off on the right foot is start champ select by saying hello and pasting a short message like "I'm best at mid and support, I can play top, and I'm a lousy jungler." If there were a greeting profile field you could fill out ahead of time that would automatically say in chat? So every lobby would start with all five people giving a one sentence introduction - might help humanize the other people, kickstart a discussion about roles, etc.

Not a complete solution, but you could also look into ways to encourage people to form 5 mans more frequently. Maybe something like "Recommended Friends... ?" The league system should help with that - I remember when leagues first came out and everyone was posting their statuses, one person said something like "Currently having an epic battle with OtherSummonerGuy for first place in Lee Sins Doohickeys (Silver II)" and a highly up voted response was "Clearly, you should duo with him instead and make Gold." A system that showed you people who were frequently online around the same time and very close in MMR to form ad-hoc teams something something.
I think something like this might actually work. You can put a short message on that will automatically pop up in chat for you when you enter champ select. It would say something along the lines of exactly what you said. I really think this is a valid idea, and could definitely work. I don't see how it would affect the meta(as far as enforcing the meta goes) as your message can change whenever you want it to(so if you want to play something else, or got better at X role, you can change based on your playstyle and your best roles and so on.


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RaptorJesusss

Senior Member

03-13-2013

The WoW dungeon fighter option seems the best right now. But leave an option for "fill"