Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
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ShadowStormLOL

Senior Member

03-13-2013

My biggest concern with a "Dungeon Finder" is that, even aside from "enforcing the meta", I don't think it does a good job separating CLASSES of champions. Couple of personal examples:

I'm fine playing support in Ranked (though it's not my 1st choice), but I don't really play aggressive/divey supports. I don't play Leona or Taric; I play Lulu, or Janna, or Soraka. Which is a problem if I queue up as Support, but my ADC really wants to run a kill lane. Even if we both get the lane we want, we don't get the COMP that we want.

Another thing is that I personally focus on the champ I want to play, not the role or lane. I like fighters, so generally ask for top lane, but I could run most of them mid or jungle too. If I'm really in the mood to play Jarvan, there are 2-3 places I could run him - so which do I queue for? Do I check them all? Then what happens if I get mid - team is stuck w/ J4 mid, or I have to change from where I wanted?

I think it causes as many problems as it solves, personally.


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Greenshaw

Senior Member

03-13-2013

One thing i would suggest is let vote to kick only be in ranked or draft pick, that way groups cant coerce people into a role or they get kicked. I mean if its blind pick normals ill pretty much to anything heck ive went adc annie and won with it in normals, but in ranked i want to do my best and thats where i wish the trolls would leave. I dont mind the trolls in normals its honestly a little funny to me but i would love for vote kicked to be in ranked and draft pick.


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Canzn

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

What if there was a 30 second time period where no one's allowed to pick/ban champions? Maybe that would allow people some time to actually communicate with one another while alleviating some of the pressure.


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Teemo Support GG

Senior Member

03-13-2013

2) WoW Dungeon Finder | Players want the ability to queue up for a particular role like “Healer” and “DPS” and placed into a Champ Select with a team


You have a class system in the game, every champion is labelled as SOMETHING, we don't have to add "lane calls" to it, just give a team a healthy mix of people that want to play something different would be awesome.

Let people queue as multiple classes if they wish.

I mean we got Tank/Support/Fighter/Bruiser/Mage/Carry etc, that is RIOTS distinction of what our champions are, not ours.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-13-2013
11 of 55 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BombingLegend View Post
@Lyte I think you need to establish whether we are talking normal or ranked queues here. I do believe it is ranked that is under discussion which is why the vote kick option was even suggested. If vote kick is chosen it should never be put in normals because 4-man premades will just continuously vote kick people until they find someone willing to play the role that isn't filled by the premade(usually support).

I think the WoW dungeon finder is a good idea but we all know Riot does not want to lock people into the meta and all that stuff. Also this would make queue times extensively long because how often do you get into champ-select and find someone typing in all caps "SUPPORT OF FEED" (I've only had it happen to me once.) What I suggest is having people check what they want to play (or maybe rank them from 1-5) and when they load into champ select have in the yellow text that says when someone connects to champ select a list of who wants to play where. this gets rid of all the "I called it first" and should help at least better facilitate and maybe push people a bit toward the more calmer(IMO) pick order system.
There are Champ Select issues in both Normals and Ranked, so this discussion should try to figure out the problems and potential solutions for both types of Champ Select.

I agree with you, vote-kicks would not work for Normals because it would encourage premades to bully strangers; however, vote-kick would probably not work for a different reason in Ranked. In many of the lobbies I've observed recently, it's usually only 1 player who wants an overlapping role. Think back to all the Champ Select lobbies where 3 or 4 players agreed on roles. Wouldn't all of these Champ Select lobbies end with a vote-kick?


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Blue Avenge

Senior Member

03-13-2013

to me the best option you listed would be prisoners island because if riot implements the system there would be no need for a vote kick in champion select players would be forced to have a good behavior if they want to play with sportsman like players. About WoW dungeon finder proposal, it doesn't solve the toxic players problem, it makes the meta fixed without letting players to improvise and try new things, and with good behaved players there is no need for such system. In brief the best option you listed is prisoners island because it solves all problematic and the other options only solve a part of the problem. However there might be better options that players haven't thought about...


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elbicnivnimai

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
This is also why the idea of the matchmaker using "Ignore" or "Mute" information to never match you with certain players has red flags--these types of features provide subtle ways for players to abuse the matchmaker to create matches that are more favorable in a competitive environment liked Ranked queues.
If you're suggesting that matchmaking currently ignores players you've ignored, that's dead wrong. It happens all the time. In fact I've been banned because I was forced to play with the same troll three games in a row and he reported me for whatever every game.


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WSU Hoey

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
3) Time Pressure | From psychology, we know that time pressure sometimes twists context in hostile ways. Players in Champ Select are effectively trying to negotiate with each other over individual goals (i.e, what role I want to play this game) that overlap with team goals (i.e, given this set of teammates, what’s the best strategy for us to win?). Studies suggest that throwing time pressure in there is like adding fuel to the fire—the end result is more disagreements and lower quality of negotiations.
At least for a Blind Pick match, could simply increasing the timer by 10, 15, 20, or 30 seconds help? Sometimes I feel like people run out of time negotating because of disagremeents, and force some people to make hasty and rash champ selections that don't benefit the team (i.e. 2 ADCs, 2 Junglers, 2 Tanks, 0 AP, 0 tanks, etc.) causing voids in roles or surplus in roles.


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chaser676

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
Splitting the queues based on that point of order probably isn't the best solution, as you'd be splitting playerbases. More likely we just want to find a set of solutions that eases the race-condition burden and allows players to build confidence in the team they're forming. Right now champ select is a bit stressful, as you're trying to get information from four people in order to form something that will allow you to succeed. Within a very small time-frame.

That's further complicated by people thinking they're better than the other players in the queue. Dunning-Kruger manifests relatively consistently. For example, we've been doing player behavior perception surveys for some time now. On those surveys, players are much more likely to suggest they very rarely make mistakes that cost the game while other players are doing so much more frequently. On a five-point frequency scale, "my mistakes cost the game" clocks in at a full point above "another player's mistakes cost the game". It can't really be the case that every respondent only rarely costs the game while a given other player frequently does.

That's not an unexpected result, and doesn't mean people are bad or dumb for thinking it. It's just a common bias that humans experience (myself included!). But it does point at one reason why, regardless of the ruleset imposed for picking champions, there will be tensions resulting from a lack of knowledge about what is about to happen (and a lack of clarity around your teammates).
Well.. to be fair, it's a lot more likely for one of FOUR people to make a game costing mistake than you.


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RubyRedShoes

Member

03-13-2013

Prisoner's island is the best solution. We already know that we can't rehabilitate consistent ragers. Riot tried implementing the reform program last year but ragers/trollers eventually went back to their old ways. With that being said, might as well pair them up. The positive players will then be more satisfied with their gaming experience and hence, they will be more enticed to spend money in this game . It's a win-win situation for riot and the positive players of this community.