@ Lyte: what is your next step

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LargeSnorlax

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I really like the idea of promoting positive behaviour instead of condemning negative behaviour.

The tribunal is a great tool for getting rid of the worst offenders, but it also promotes a very nerve wracking experience for a lot of players who skirt the line between neutral and toxic who see the tribunal as a system that does work, but then use that information to try and get other players banned who they don't like - Not realizing that in itself is toxic behaviour and creating a death spiral for their account. Those are the people you'll see a lot in the tribunal forum, who may not be the worst offenders in the world, but who have been banned before, realize the tribunal is a functioning system, but fail to realize their own bad behaviour in trying to utilize it.

Positive-first rewards and incentives are something really interesting though. I think Santa Baron (While nice to have) was too vague of an incentive to really promote positive play - ("If you happened to be pretty nice this last year, we reward you!"). As long as it's not something focused around reports - I was thinking of systems where players could be rewarded based on say, 100 games without a certain number of reports, but that can easily be abused by the same people mentioned above who see the Tribunal/reporting system as a bat they can swing around at players to bring them into line.

Little random perks for positive players would be very welcome though. Just depends on how it's done. People like concrete goals to work for - That's why achievements in general work so well, and I don't think it's really a bad idea to promote positive behaviour, even if people are only doing it for a certain goal - In the end, it's still getting good behaviour out of people who may not otherwise show it


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pilling

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Lyte, do you consider positive reinforcement as much as or more than negative reinforcement in your internal discussions? It seems rather backwards to talk about so many punitive/reformative measures when the end goal is to create a positive experience.

That isn't to say that removing toxic players is bad nor that "good" players should get rewards per se. I'm just curious to know if there's more (in discussion or in the works) than just the "honor" initiative in regards to positive reinforcement.


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Best Support AU

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Lyte are there anyways we can request to be permamuted or something along them lines?


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-13-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilling View Post
Lyte, do you consider positive reinforcement as much as or more than negative reinforcement in your internal discussions? It seems rather backwards to talk about so many punitive/reformative measures when the end goal is to create a positive experience.

That isn't to say that removing toxic players is bad nor that "good" players should get rewards per se. I'm just curious to know if there's more (in discussion or in the works) than just the "honor" initiative in regards to positive reinforcement.
Most of the player behavior team's current focus is not on punishment systems. We believe the Tribunal is critically important and always needed to deal with the systematically toxic players; however, we've been slowly transitioning our PBJ teams to work on features and systems that can prevent toxicity or spotlight positive behavior now that the 'punishment foundation' is in place and working well.


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Blue Avenge

Senior Member

03-13-2013

@lyte i've been thinking of a way to improve player behavior, why not implement an incognito referee system like in traditional sport competitions where the referee is watching the match in spectator mode and is being awarded ip for community service, also make it so that players reported by the referee are placed on high priority for the tribunal in this manner they get judged faster. The strong aspect of my idea is the psychological Warfare of not knowing if being watched by a referee or not creating by consequence the need to behave correctly. Another strong point is that it would strengthen the culture of watching esports.

i know my english isnt perfect, sorry about that.


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timtwins

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Avenge View Post
@lyte i've been thinking of a way to improve player behavior, why not implement an incognito referee system like in traditional sport competitions where the referee is watching the match in spectator mode and is being awarded ip for community service, also make it so that players reported by the referee are placed on high priority for the tribunal in this manner they get judged faster. The strong aspect of my idea is the psychological Warfare of not knowing if being watched by a referee or not creating by consequence the need to behave correctly. Another strong point is that it would strengthen the culture of watching esports.

i know my english isnt perfect, sorry about that.
People would just afk and do other stuff so that they could gain the ip.


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Ghan04

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Most of the player behavior team's current focus is not on punishment systems. We believe the Tribunal is critically important and always needed to deal with the systematically toxic players; however, we've been slowly transitioning our PBJ teams to work on features and systems that can prevent toxicity or spotlight positive behavior now that the 'punishment foundation' is in place and working well.
I'm still waiting for my "over 2500 cases reviewed in Tribunal" cookie. :P

But anyway, here's another idea:
Is it possible to assign a "positivity rating" to individual chat messages? What if you could do that? What if you could find messages like "thanks for the help", "gj stealing their blue", "nice kill" and so on, and then have like a live feed of such messages in the client. A new message might appear randomly every 5-10 seconds as a sort of live behavior showcase from games in progress.


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LargeSnorlax

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Avenge View Post
@lyte i've been thinking of a way to improve player behavior, why not implement an incognito referee system like in traditional sport competitions where the referee is watching the match in spectator mode and is being awarded ip for community service, also make it so that players reported by the referee are placed on high priority for the tribunal in this manner they get judged faster. The strong aspect of my idea is the psychological Warfare of not knowing if being watched by a referee or not creating by consequence the need to behave correctly. Another strong point is that it would strengthen the culture of watching esports.

i know my english isnt perfect, sorry about that.
I actually kind of like this idea. It doesn't even have to be linked to the tribunal - Even just having something like a "Ref's thumbs up" on the profile would be neat to have.

It's a little bit big brother, but I think it could work. Don't think it needs IP at all though.


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Blue Avenge

Senior Member

03-13-2013

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Originally Posted by timtwins View Post
People would just afk and do other stuff so that they could gain the ip.
they would only gain ip, if the tribunal decides to punish the player


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pilling

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Avenge View Post
@lyte i've been thinking of a way to improve player behavior, why not implement an incognito referee system like in traditional sport competitions where the referee is watching the match in spectator mode and is being awarded ip for community service, also make it so that players reported by the referee are placed on high priority for the tribunal in this manner they get judged faster. The strong aspect of my idea is the psychological Warfare of not knowing if being watched by a referee or not creating by consequence the need to behave correctly. Another strong point is that it would strengthen the culture of watching esports.

i know my english isnt perfect, sorry about that.
I don't think this is a good idea because the fundamental idea behind it is that you might have someone looking over your shoulder so you should behave. In my opinion, you should behave well for the sake of behaving well, not because you might be watched.

Also, I think this would be very inconsistent -- many people would never have the chance to earn more IP, which makes it a rather unfair system.