So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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Grand Viper

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh de Tonreau View Post
Culturally Ionia is more likely to have markings and it's shown through the characters. Ionia is OUT THERE and we should all know how they are and what we can expect. Karma embodies Ionia so we shouldn't be complaining about...leg or tattoo. It's not like she's side-boob Akali who has her legs out too.



oh ok then yeah i agree.
Akali is based on the kunoichi, a ninja who uses her s*x appeal to lower the defenses of men and then slaughters them. Her sideboob and your eye being attracted to it only means it's a part of her ultimate scheme.

And thank you about the hand, it's drivin' me nuts still looking at it.


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Calling Clouds

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Viper View Post
words
Tyrant Ghandi made me lol. Your post said what I had intended to say, though you did a much better job of it so +1


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Josh de Tonreau

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Viper View Post
Akali is based on the kunoichi, a ninja who uses her s*x appeal to lower the defenses of men and then slaughters them. Her sideboob and your eye being attracted to it only means it's a part of her ultimate scheme.

And thank you about the hand, it's drivin' me nuts still looking at it.
pretty sure akali doesn't seduce people though....wouldn't even imagine her doing that....
+1 bout the hand tho..


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Grand Viper

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh de Tonreau View Post
pretty sure akali doesn't seduce people though....wouldn't even imagine her doing that....
+1 bout the hand tho..
Influenced, not directly based. Look at her stance, at her pose, at her confidence. She is walking death, and she could wear a bikini and gut you like a fish. Akali is terrifying if you think about it, her lore says she can cut a dangling chain of metal with her bare hands. I can imagine her using a weapon only because it would be less suffering for her target to not have them beaten to death via their own skull. It's also about how she's about enticing, not about straight out seducing. It's the appearance that does it, not her words. So on that point, it's a pretty good distraction.

If Karma was an assassin and was able to carry the widowmaker, femme fatale appeal, this wouldn't be as big of a problem for me.

I'd be throwing an equally big fit if they decided to cover Akali head to toe in full plate mail and deem that her main, canon skin, because it would make as much sense as what they did with Karma.

It's about showing what you want, and saying you want a bad *ss leader, yet regal figure with the idea of tranquility and serenity, and make her look like that? That's not necessarily what one imagines to be someone "enlightened." It's about what you think when you think of someone smart, regal, serene, maybe even motherly if she's a caring leader of Ionia.

And the idea of it being more practical in a battle?

Why does Sona wear a full length dress? Does she walk? Does she float? Is she magical in any sense? Karma's tubesock dress needed to be reworked, but if you can have Sona with a full length dress, and still carry appeal, then I can imagine putting a full length dress on Karma isn't too farfetched. No, they specifically wanted to show THAT leg, with that dress, that doesn't look like it has enough fabric to cover both legs.

You want her to have a slit dress? Why not something more on the lines of this, or this, or most preferably this.

To give you those examples was less than a minute on google images. All three of these dresses cover more than just her pelvis, and they all do have some class to it while having some s*x appeal that people clamor for. I prefer the first and third dresses, they show the most class to me and a good strong feminine appeal still. The second dress was to show that even a s*x appealing dress doesn't necessarily need to have less fabric for the legs than it has for the chest.

((It is a RvB reference/joke, the skull bit, only saying this so I can say I cite my sources. And I understand that Sona's appeal comes from her ridiculously large bust, but she still is wearing a full length dress on the FoJ))

EDITED: Third link was derped and added some introductory stuff I forgot to add about Akali.


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Timron

Junior Member

03-12-2013

I never knew there was bold :3
Oya, can we still get the Karma today, and still get the skin???


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IS13d0bef7a26900094c0e3

Junior Member

03-12-2013

one of the things i see a lot of people saying is "this karma isn't old karma, this karma isn't all about what old karma's about". you're talking and talking and talking about how old karma was regal and **** and how new karma is just some **** but the point is that they're different, and if you even CARED TO READ what riot posted on the first page you'd understand what they're doing.

old karma didn't show what they wanted to be shown with karma. she didn't show ionian power, she didn't show that mysticism, she didn't show that inner strength needed to lead a broken people. she looked too much like a "matronly diplomat" and that was NOT what was going to sell what riot wanted karma to sell.

you guys are angry about new karma not being like old karma, but i like to look at it as old karma not being the "real" karma, not showing what riot wanted karma to show, which is why they're re-doing it. you're making the mistake of thinking that this rework is all about pleasing the old fans, but that's not it. they're not doing this to preserve what YOU guys like about her, they're doing this so she can be closer to what THEY wanted her to be. if that means not being a classy lady with fans, that means not being a classy lady with fans. you guys fell in love with a mistake, which is tragic, but that's that.

but riot's not here to bend over backwards to make sure all six of you guys are pleased with every decision they make, they're here to make the best content they can, which means making content that connects 100%. if something doesn't connect, they fix it so that it does. chances are, a bunch of more people will be playing karma, and "karma who" will be a thing of the past. that's what makes me happy about this, it's going to be like karma is a proper champion now, not some grey blur that nobody remembers because she has a low level of impact that a microscopic minority happened to get attached to.


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Grand Viper

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Amidst all these downvotes, I would like someone to humor me, and join me in discussion as to how, and/or why I'm wrong. What am I saying that is so incorrect? Why am I incorrect in my musings, my opinion? It is possible, that I can be wrong.

It is also possible, anyone else can be wrong.

So, rather than downvoting me and not saying a word, join me in discussion, bring up your points and explain to me why I'm overreacting to a complete rehaul of her character design without any consideration to the fans? Bring up some old arguments, some old points that I may have missed, I don't mind, let us engage in discussion.

Is that familiar? Maybe to only some veterans, because call me crazy, but was that not done with Lux's initial design? And Irelia's? Does anyone remember when Riot showed their designs and people were like "Oh God no", and they redesigned them? Would that be too much trouble, to ask the fanbase for their collective opinion? Even put up a vote, that way if this design of Karma's won due to community votes, I'd be upset because hey, my choice didn't win, but understand this is what people want. If this is what the majority of people want, I cannot argue against that, I can grumble about it but it's what they want. I would like her fans back, I would prefer her "Traditional" skin to be her main skin, and this new skin to be a new skin for her, I would like to know what's going to happen to my Sakura Karma skin since that made her look like a traditional Japanese woman via removing the floating mantle of Decorum behind her and giving her a kimono, and so forth.

Am I really that wrong? And if so, how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HottShotJEEJEE View Post
one of the things i see a lot of people saying is "this karma isn't old karma, this karma isn't all about what old karma's about". you're talking and talking and talking about how old karma was regal and **** and how new karma is just some **** but the point is that they're different, and if you even CARED TO READ what riot posted on the first page you'd understand what they're doing.

old karma didn't show what they wanted to be shown with karma. she didn't show ionian power, she didn't show that mysticism, she didn't show that inner strength needed to lead a broken people. she looked too much like a "matronly diplomat" and that was NOT what was going to sell what riot wanted karma to sell.

you guys are angry about new karma not being like old karma, but i like to look at it as old karma not being the "real" karma, not showing what riot wanted karma to show, which is why they're re-doing it. you're making the mistake of thinking that this rework is all about pleasing the old fans, but that's not it. they're not doing this to preserve what YOU guys like about her, they're doing this so she can be closer to what THEY wanted her to be. if that means not being a classy lady with fans, that means not being a classy lady with fans. you guys fell in love with a mistake, which is tragic, but that's that.

but riot's not here to bend over backwards to make sure all six of you guys are pleased with every decision they make, they're here to make the best content they can, which means making content that connects 100%. if something doesn't connect, they fix it so that it does. chances are, a bunch of more people will be playing karma, and "karma who" will be a thing of the past. that's what makes me happy about this, it's going to be like karma is a proper champion now, not some grey blur that nobody remembers because she has a low level of impact that a microscopic minority happened to get attached to.
Her redesign was needed. Go ahead, look at my old posts, back in page 62 (or is it 63? I can't remember, around the 60's), I have it there, it was needed because she was wearing a tubesock, but would it be too much from Riot to ask the fanbase as to our opinion? They had done it in the past, and rather than basing it on what they assume people want/like, they can get their honest opinion on a collective whole. They could please 51%+ of the people who voted and discussed, and those who didn't can't say much about the fact since they didn't put forth their opinion. It would also help garner a stronger community since there would be discussion, there would be multiple pov's, and in the end, it would be the majority of people, no matter how slight it may be, that are satisfied. I'm not saying they should listen to every, single criticism, every single "Her eyes need to be 2 tints lighter! The 3506th pixel on her shoulder is too dark!" I'm saying there should be a sense of community since we are, in fact, a community.

It's a matter of communication, and how little of it Riot has been doing. Saying "This is her redesign, enjoy it!" doesn't mean much, not when you have age-old companies on Kickstarter doing projects like Torment, Eternity, and Wasteland 2 and they constantly are gaining player feedback and yes, they want to still make a profit on their games but want to hear the opinion of their fanbase as well.

Communication, it's a great thing.


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IS13d0bef7a26900094c0e3

Junior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Viper View Post
Amidst all these downvotes, I would like someone to humor me, and join me in discussion as to how, and/or why I'm wrong. What am I saying that is so incorrect? Why am I incorrect in my musings, my opinion? It is possible, that I can be wrong.

It is also possible, anyone else can be wrong.

So, rather than downvoting me and not saying a word, join me in discussion, bring up your points and explain to me why I'm overreacting to a complete rehaul of her character design without any consideration to the fans? Bring up some old arguments, some old points that I may have missed, I don't mind, let us engage in discussion.

Is that familiar? Maybe to only some veterans, because call me crazy, but was that not done with Lux's initial design? And Irelia's? Does anyone remember when Riot showed their designs and people were like "Oh God no", and they redesigned them? Would that be too much trouble, to ask the fanbase for their collective opinion? Even put up a vote, that way if this design of Karma's won due to community votes, I'd be upset because hey, my choice didn't win, but understand this is what people want. If this is what the majority of people want, I cannot argue against that, I can grumble about it but it's what they want. I would like her fans back, I would prefer her "Traditional" skin to be her main skin, and this new skin to be a new skin for her, I would like to know what's going to happen to my Sakura Karma skin since that made her look like a traditional Japanese woman via removing the floating mantle of Decorum behind her and giving her a kimono, and so forth.

Am I really that wrong? And if so, how?



Her redesign was needed. Go ahead, look at my old posts, back in page 62 (or is it 63? I can't remember, around the 60's), I have it there, it was needed because she was wearing a tubesock, but would it be too much from Riot to ask the fanbase as to our opinion? They had done it in the past, and rather than basing it on what they assume people want/like, they can get their honest opinion on a collective whole. They could please 51%+ of the people who voted and discussed, and those who didn't can't say much about the fact since they didn't put forth their opinion.

It's a matter of communication, and how little of it Riot has been doing. Saying "This is her redesign, enjoy it!" doesn't mean much, not when you have age-old on Kickstarter doing projects like Torment, Eternity, and Wasteland 2 and they constantly are gaining player feedback and yes, they want to still make a profit on their games but want to hear the opinion of their fanbase as well.

Communication, it's a great thing.
take a step back, and look at how entitled you are. "riot is doing this redesign to please her old fans! there's no other reason they'd change her!" no. no no no. and no again.

they didn't make this public and ask karma's "fanbase" if they liked this new direction they were taking to get karma to convey what they originally wanted her to convey, because their goal wasn't to please her OLD fans. if the old fans fell in love with something that didn't work or that wasn't good design, that's too bad, but it's not going to stop them from fixing their old mistakes. they didn't talk to you, because they weren't doing this for YOU. they were doing this for everyone. they were doing this so everyone could understand what karma is all about and what she does, which her old image just didn't do.

they explained this all within the first three posts of this thread, i'm starting to thing you never even read it, and just got mad because they changed your baby.


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HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HottShotJEEJEE View Post
chances are, a bunch of more people will be playing karma, and "karma who" will be a thing of the past. that's what makes me happy about this, it's going to be like karma is a proper champion now, not some grey blur that nobody remembers because she has a low level of impact that a microscopic minority happened to get attached to.
Which is something they could've achieved with some buffs, or a simple kit rework or a less drastic visual upgrade.

It's insane to think the reason why Karma wasn't popular was the way she looked. There are lots of champions in the League with unappealing and/or confusing designs but they still get picked a lot because they are strong picks and because they fit with the meta.

The reason for her unpopularity and the idiotic "karma who?" meme is that her kit didn't fit with the meta, and especially in the support role, was slightly underpowered if paired with a ranged ADC rather than a melee champion. I don't think she was underpowered in the AP mid role but her reputation made it pretty much impossible to play her there (unless you're ok with being flamed from champion select until the end of the game, regardless of the result). And Riot sure didn't help because while every other champion got regular tweaks, fixes, buffs and nerfs with almost every patch she was pretty much ignored for the whole two years since her release (last time she got changes to her numbers was March 29th 2011, followed by a bug hotfix in May 10).


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Afrocalypse

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HottShotJEEJEE View Post
one of the things i see a lot of people saying is "this karma isn't old karma, this karma isn't all about what old karma's about". you're talking and talking and talking about how old karma was regal and **** and how new karma is just some **** but the point is that they're different, and if you even CARED TO READ what riot posted on the first page you'd understand what they're doing.

old karma didn't show what they wanted to be shown with karma. she didn't show ionian power, she didn't show that mysticism, she didn't show that inner strength needed to lead a broken people. she looked too much like a "matronly diplomat" and that was NOT what was going to sell what riot wanted karma to sell.

you guys are angry about new karma not being like old karma, but i like to look at it as old karma not being the "real" karma, not showing what riot wanted karma to show, which is why they're re-doing it. you're making the mistake of thinking that this rework is all about pleasing the old fans, but that's not it. they're not doing this to preserve what YOU guys like about her, they're doing this so she can be closer to what THEY wanted her to be. if that means not being a classy lady with fans, that means not being a classy lady with fans. you guys fell in love with a mistake, which is tragic, but that's that.

but riot's not here to bend over backwards to make sure all six of you guys are pleased with every decision they make, they're here to make the best content they can, which means making content that connects 100%. if something doesn't connect, they fix it so that it does. chances are, a bunch of more people will be playing karma, and "karma who" will be a thing of the past. that's what makes me happy about this, it's going to be like karma is a proper champion now, not some grey blur that nobody remembers because she has a low level of impact that a microscopic minority happened to get attached to.
Yes, "we" liked the old Karma, riot decided this is the better one.
I got that long ago, many did, doesn't change the fact we don't like it, what are you so upset about?