So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
This is also under the assumption that every champion in League is well-designed, and that the existence of old mistakes justifies new ones. I'd also argue that Soraka's and Lux's magic sticks are there to convey "hey these champions are magic and stuff, they're not going to jump at you and instagib you or rapid-fire arrows at you."
And again, you're right about that. But Karma isn't a new champion. Something I also wouldn't want as a designer is to have to go back and retcon what made a character that character. Maybe it was a bad idea, maybe it was bad design, but it's something the players got used to in the past two years, something that no matter how flawed, was accepted and recognized as the essence of that character.

Not every character in League of Legends is well designed, or particularly logical in its design, but I've always thought that was part of the appeal, it added to the realism somehow, knowing that some champions just have some quirks and personalities that not always make sense. Just like the fact that the champions in this game are actually identified by their first names and not their "titles" like it happens in most other mobas.
It's a huge part of the appeal, I think some of these things definitely helped LoL become the game it is now, it went from a game for a few thousand users to a game for millions, even with all its quirks, its bugs, its weird/poor design choices.

I understand that now, after the huge growth, they want to adopt a more "mature" and streamlined design philosophy and it's fine to apply that to every NEW champion, but I just don't see the point in going back and "correcting" older ones. This type of evolution/redesign is something I would expect from an entirely new release, say a LoL 2, but not something to suddenly add in a patch. There are some things that need fixing, some others are just part of the original appeal and if Riot went back and reworked champions like this everytime they chose a new design strategy, it would obviously be a never-ending work, and a never-ending source of disappointment for the people who fell in love with the game because of those champions, and got used to them being the way they were.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SexyShady

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
What, out of curiosity, did you love about old Karma?
Can I elude on this? I loved the simple design. Yeah she was flat chested (lol bad for a game really) but she was wise and her attire was feminine and it covered her body!! I hate hate hate over sexualized girls in gaming!! As I've said before, her kit was situational and she fared well in 1v1's if you built her right. The burst potential was overwhelming and she helped tremendously in team fights with her mantra wave and mantra shield.

This might be a little cliche... But what I loved most about her was her attitude. Always calm. I turned off my music and turned up the champion voice when I played her because she kept me calm. Kept me focused. Like Sona, I really felt connected to the character psychologically. A good character keeps a strong connection with their player. I'm a college student majoring in personality psychology and I want to go into the video game industry as a character designer, to strengthen bonds between characters and players. This is EXTREMELY important to me.

EDIT: Let me elaborate a bit if you're still confused... It's like someone taking your best friend, teammate, (or if you're really loyal to Karma) your lover and saying "Hey guys imma change everything about them, but don't worry, they're gunna be better than before!" I appreciate what Riot is doing to an underplayed champion, but it's still a sting to the heart if you played her a lot.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

T33moHat

Member

03-10-2013

I think that Riot needs to (and probably will) Define what the tiers of rework are. It looks as though there are some like Annie that are simply a VU, meaning only the visuals, then there are some like Twisted Fate, where Visuals and Lore are shifted but Gameplay remains largely the same, Then there are the Relaunches, when Riot feels the character was so off that they have to completely redo the Art, Lore and Gameplay Kit. I think Karma is the first of this type of Tier and to be honest it will probably be the most rare out of all the rework types.
Tier1: VU only, Soraka, Annie, Nidalee, Ashe, Gangplank for example
Tier2: Visuals, and Lore updates, Twisted Fate for example.
Tier3: Complete overhaul. New lore, New Gameplay/skills/role, New Visuals. So much so they feel a need to make a "Traditional" skin so they don't completely change the item you purchased.
I think as they make these tiers more apparent in the upcoming reworks, expectations will be better managed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Regina George

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Meh, I still liked the fans, no matter how FUN this new champion will be, she will never be the old Karma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
What, out of curiosity, did you love about old Karma?
I play mostly supports and female champions so that's already a bias on my side. More specifically, I have an obsession with paper fans (I have a collection of them) and when I saw a champion, in my favorite game, was going to use fans, imagine my delight! I also liked her skillset a lot, and I truly believe that she was one of the BEST characters that LoL has. Her lore, her look, her skills, her skins worked so perfectly with each other. I also loved how she had darker skin (just for variety, not in a BLACK CHAMP WHERE?! kinda thing).

I also liked how people thought she was bad, so when I do well in a game, that's when they realize that she is actually REALLY strong. I guess it'a little bit "I played Karma before it was cool" kinda thing.

I also LOVED the way she walked, I lived for that sassy runway walk that she had. It was one my most favorite walking animations (my fave is Cass).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Birdy51

Senior Member

03-10-2013

I also will admit that the fans are rather imprinted in my mind... I don't know why! To see them completely disappear would be kind of sad. I don't know if this idea will grab much traction, but could her traditional skin pull a fan out as her /taunt/joke/laugh/dance animation as a homage to her old partners in crime?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

T33moHat

Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy51 View Post
could her traditional skin pull a fan out as her /taunt/joke/laugh/dance animation as a homage to her old partners in crime?
I know it's popular to hate on Riot, but they do want to please the fans. I would bet money they will do this for us. In fact, it might already be there since none of us has seen it on PBE yet.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Healurownbum

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Its a pity Coronach isnt around anymore he made Karma from what i been seeing. Would of been nice to see him upgrade her. Might of been less of a impact then its now. But oh well I know they are trying to get both sides happy, i know it. But the new looks isnt me and its not just the lack of fans, its also the green aura that seems to happen. She used to be silent on the background and now she will glow bright green. And its like its not a inner will anymore but a radiant will. She changed to much and all we can do is hope her skillset keeps the same feel.

Sorry Red but saying its fun didnt help me much on that aspect. Alot of champions are fun, if thats what i got to compare it too it wont do it. Anyways just waiting for more information cant wait to see her on the beta.

And if her skillset isnt going to work, yea i will end up crying my eyes out and probably be a dramaqueen on the forums some more..


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Josh de Tonreau

Senior Member

03-10-2013

i've said it once and i'll say it again.
her fans were irrelevant even to her old model, so they'd be extremely irrelevant in this one.
i love the new model and can't wait to see sun goddess
i will miss the old one of course because it's so different but tbh im excited for the changes.
especially sun goddess karma...i'm itching to see it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Josh de Tonreau

Senior Member

03-10-2013

and you people are so dumb
if a champion can't even change her clothes with ppl saying "she'll never be the old karma"... like sheesh she will be the old karma if all u ppl care about is her clothes.
people are just so butthurt over these fans, like sheesh get over it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

plasmatorture

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
Replacing existing stories is not done lightly.
Still no apologies from Riot for the Megling Genocide.

:'(