So, about that Karma leak...

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Faari

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Senior Member

03-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
This is going to be a long post, so stay with me.

Why Relaunch?

Relaunch team has a few different types of content we create- you're most familiar with the Visual Upgrades we've been doing. For the most part, there have been subtle changes- TF picked up a coat, Nid's waist is bigger than a pencil, etc.

What, then, is a Relaunch? A relaunch is when we take a champion back to the drawing board because we feel like we didn't get it right the first time and just improving the champion's visuals won't be sufficient. This isn't a decision we make lightly and it involves considerably more work than a VU does. For context, all of the VUs starting with Soraka have been released after we started work on Karma.

Ask yourself how you think someone with fans fights. Is it a shield? A tether? Is the most powerful manifestation of this person who fights with fans the ability to improve their other abilities?

We didn't feel that was the case. The fans were a distraction from what she was supposed to be, then. (a note: yes, we could have spent time forcing the fans to work, but that didn't work out the first time) Instead, we looked at her Inner Flame and Mantra - this spoke of an inner strength, uncompromising in the face of adversity. That strength was also a source of power for her. This made sense, this wasn't 'in the way'. Digging deeper, we decided that it was this strength and her devotion to her country that we felt made her powerful and memorable. More than a politician who happened to fight, but a legend in her own right.

That leads to the Karma you see now. Her fans aren't permanently removed from her story, but she no longer needs to channel her strength through them. She has sufficient self-control to do that on her own now. She is still the voice of her people. And while we aren't against retcons, Karma's story is a progression, not a replacement.

I've read every page of this thread. You aren't unheard- good and bad. Getting Karma ready for release is taking a lot of the team's time. There's been comments that we went into this uninformed or didn't ask people who played Karma what they thought - this isn't the case. While we didn't put it to a forum poll (and likely never will), many Karma players were asked for their thoughts about old Karma and new Karma alike. We've had a lot of good feedback. We went into this knowing that not everyone would be happy with the changes, but are confident that we've made the right decision.

The other running set of comments were that we haven't talked enough about why we made the changes we have. To that end, I'm going to stick around for a bit and talk Karma. It's my night off, but anyone who reads my posts knows that I care enough about the community to put the time in.



But we have this cool hidden passive that- oh, fine.

(I'm kidding - no harlem shake for Karma)





Suit yourself. If interest is still there, I'll put one up sometime soon.
Sweet although are you able to give us a rough idea of when her abilities will be made public?


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RiotAmes

QA Analyst

03-09-2013
30 of 43 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faari View Post
Sweet although are you able to give us a rough idea of when her abilities will be made public?
That'll be when she hits the PBE or right before. Not able to give a time for that outside of the usual Soon™.


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the Dead Child

Member

03-09-2013

:/ Was excited that new riot post may have been indicating her release


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Healurownbum

Senior Member

03-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
This is going to be a long post, so stay with me.

Why Relaunch?

Relaunch team has a few different types of content we create- you're most familiar with the Visual Upgrades we've been doing. For the most part, there have been subtle changes- TF picked up a coat, Nid's waist is bigger than a pencil, etc.

What, then, is a Relaunch? A relaunch is when we take a champion back to the drawing board because we feel like we didn't get it right the first time and just improving the champion's visuals won't be sufficient. This isn't a decision we make lightly and it involves considerably more work than a VU does. For context, all of the VUs starting with Soraka have been released after we started work on Karma.

Ask yourself how you think someone with fans fights. Is it a shield? A tether? Is the most powerful manifestation of this person who fights with fans the ability to improve their other abilities?

We didn't feel that was the case. The fans were a distraction from what she was supposed to be, then. (a note: yes, we could have spent time forcing the fans to work, but that didn't work out the first time) Instead, we looked at her Inner Flame and Mantra - this spoke of an inner strength, uncompromising in the face of adversity. That strength was also a source of power for her. This made sense, this wasn't 'in the way'. Digging deeper, we decided that it was this strength and her devotion to her country that we felt made her powerful and memorable. More than a politician who happened to fight, but a legend in her own right.

That leads to the Karma you see now. Her fans aren't permanently removed from her story, but she no longer needs to channel her strength through them. She has sufficient self-control to do that on her own now. She is still the voice of her people. And while we aren't against retcons, Karma's story is a progression, not a replacement.

I've read every page of this thread. You aren't unheard- good and bad. Getting Karma ready for release is taking a lot of the team's time. There's been comments that we went into this uninformed or didn't ask people who played Karma what they thought - this isn't the case. While we didn't put it to a forum poll (and likely never will), many Karma players were asked for their thoughts about old Karma and new Karma alike. We've had a lot of good feedback. We went into this knowing that not everyone would be happy with the changes, but are confident that we've made the right decision.

The other running set of comments were that we haven't talked enough about why we made the changes we have. To that end, I'm going to stick around for a bit and talk Karma. It's my night off, but anyone who reads my posts knows that I care enough about the community to put the time in.



But we have this cool hidden passive that- oh, fine.

(I'm kidding - no harlem shake for Karma)





Suit yourself. If interest is still there, I'll put one up sometime soon.
Thank you, still saddens me to see her go. To me its not a VU tho but a remake. If her skin would be the default it wouldnt of worried me as much as it currently does tho. Im afraid with how much you changed her looks her skillset and feel will be changed too much as well. And it will be a new champion. And im sorry but that i do hate.

I love having a champion that has a certain air to herself like im here and i do not care abt you as you will not get in my way. She was unique in pretty much everything for me. And she too me now becomes more average, but also is going from a leader to a fighter. I know all i got is the inscreen pictures but the first one rly looks like she is now a pure fighter. Not the strong willed tower of will. Who can also talk you under the talk and doesnt just need to kick you in the face.

To me she has lost that, it worries me. But again thank you for atleast trying and i rly pray to god im just overreacting. God knows i tend to do that. And im sorry btw to you and anyone else on the red team if i insulted you, im a dramaqueen at heart lol. Too sensetive and let my emotions take the best of me when something I Care abt get taken away from me. And thats what it currently feels like ur taking away something i respected and loved to make it more average.


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Lesthrid

Senior Member

03-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
This is going to be a long post, so stay with me.

Why Relaunch?

Relaunch team has a few different types of content we create- you're most familiar with the Visual Upgrades we've been doing. For the most part, there have been subtle changes- TF picked up a coat, Nid's waist is bigger than a pencil, etc.

What, then, is a Relaunch? A relaunch is when we take a champion back to the drawing board because we feel like we didn't get it right the first time and just improving the champion's visuals won't be sufficient. This isn't a decision we make lightly and it involves considerably more work than a VU does. For context, all of the VUs starting with Soraka have been released after we started work on Karma.

Ask yourself how you think someone with fans fights. Is it a shield? A tether? Is the most powerful manifestation of this person who fights with fans the ability to improve their other abilities?

We didn't feel that was the case. The fans were a distraction from what she was supposed to be, then. (a note: yes, we could have spent time forcing the fans to work, but that didn't work out the first time) Instead, we looked at her Inner Flame and Mantra - this spoke of an inner strength, uncompromising in the face of adversity. That strength was also a source of power for her. This made sense, this wasn't 'in the way'. Digging deeper, we decided that it was this strength and her devotion to her country that we felt made her powerful and memorable. More than a politician who happened to fight, but a legend in her own right.

That leads to the Karma you see now. Her fans aren't permanently removed from her story, but she no longer needs to channel her strength through them. She has sufficient self-control to do that on her own now. She is still the voice of her people. And while we aren't against retcons, Karma's story is a progression, not a replacement.

I've read every page of this thread. You aren't unheard- good and bad. Getting Karma ready for release is taking a lot of the team's time. There's been comments that we went into this uninformed or didn't ask people who played Karma what they thought - this isn't the case. While we didn't put it to a forum poll (and likely never will), many Karma players were asked for their thoughts about old Karma and new Karma alike. We've had a lot of good feedback. We went into this knowing that not everyone would be happy with the changes, but are confident that we've made the right decision.

The other running set of comments were that we haven't talked enough about why we made the changes we have. To that end, I'm going to stick around for a bit and talk Karma. It's my night off, but anyone who reads my posts knows that I care enough about the community to put the time in.



But we have this cool hidden passive that- oh, fine.

(I'm kidding - no harlem shake for Karma)





Suit yourself. If interest is still there, I'll put one up sometime soon.
Thanks for doing this. My only question about the Karma rework is with regards to her kit, not her look. I know you can't disclose any info yet on her skills, but I would like to know how she feels. Does she feel too different from the old Karma? Will we still be able to approach her with a similar mindset?


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FatalArchon

Member

03-09-2013

So you guys can't even put her fans in her recall or something? They dont have to be out at all times but some reference will settle this issue for EVERYONE please please please!


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The Aviatrix

Senior Member

03-09-2013

I'd like to know why her dress and posture were removed?
I understand they're impractical, but given she used her inner strength, practical clothing didn't feel necessary.

I feel like she lost some of her poise and class with her new outfit as well as what appears to be her new run. I feel like the dress and walk, full of dignity and rigid posture, made her stand out in the league. Why remove such a unique characteristic?

Will there ever been another champion to embody such: the impractical, but unique, attire as a full length dress as the default look?


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RiotAmes

QA Analyst

03-09-2013
31 of 43 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Healurownbum View Post
And im sorry btw to you and anyone else on the red team if i insulted you, im a dramaqueen at heart lol. Too sensetive and let my emotions take the best of me when something I Care abt get taken away from me. And thats what it currently feels like ur taking away something i respected and loved to make it more average.
Don't apologize for how you feel about things. I've got thick skin. You are right that this is not a VU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesthrid View Post
Thanks for doing this. My only question about the Karma rework is with regards to her kit, not her look. I know you can't disclose any info yet on her skills, but I would like to know how she feels. Does she feel too different from the old Karma? Will we still be able to approach her with a similar mindset?
The designer/s paid attention to how Karma is currently played. Players who are familiar with Karma still enjoy playing her. I asked the team the other day, "Is Karma fun?" the answer was "Yes". You and others will be the judge of their success in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatalArchon View Post
So you guys can't even put her fans in her recall or something? They dont have to be out at all times but some reference will settle this issue for EVERYONE please please please!
Just a hint? Hm. Like we've said - we don't want players thinking she fights with her fans for various reasons. I do understand the attachment, though..

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Aviatrix View Post
Will there ever been another champion to embody such the impractical, but unique, attire as a full length dress as the default look?
Possibly. I can't speak to what we'll do with upcoming champions. I will say that, technically, a full dress is a bit of a nightmare at times. Some of the animations we wanted to do with Karma don't support it.


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FatalArchon

Member

03-09-2013

Are her fans involved of referenced on her in ANY way at all? In her lore? In her emotes or recall? To completely abandon it would be heartbreaking </3


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Faari

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
Don't apologize for how you feel about things. I've got thick skin. You are right that this is not a VU.



The designer/s paid attention to how Karma is currently played. Players who are familiar with Karma still enjoy playing her. I asked the team the other day, "Is Karma fun?" the answer was "Yes". You and others will be the judge of their success in the end.
I guess the information we were unable to determine when the photos were released.. does she still have her shield? We could only see perhaps either an auto attack or a skillshot, and spirit bond..