So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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Brosirius

Senior Member

03-07-2013

This looks like trash and the reasoning behind the change are dumb. "herp derp, she's from ionia so she should have silly floaty metal wings duuuuurrrr"


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Bes7iA

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Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinmi View Post
when riottt... WHEEENNNN ?????
why riottt... WHYYYYYYYY !!!!!!!!!


fxd


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CountAllister

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Senior Member

03-07-2013

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Originally Posted by Qonker View Post
I think it is because the fans, while only playing a minor role in her kit, were symbolic of her "enlightened" background. She used an nontraditional weapon, similar to Jax's lamp post, on a battlefield with other champions using swords, guns, etc. which enhanced and spoke to that inner strength you mention. Her resolve is what gave her power, not the fans, but they served as a reminder that she was of a different stature then other champions on the field. She did not rely on conventional weaponry, but her will alone to defeat her enemies.

I think removing the fans were a mistake. If anything they should have played up the fans. It would have allowed them to show that unlike Jax, who uses his physical prowess and skills as fighter overcome a self inclined handicap. Karma's determination and willpower are all she needs. The fans serve as a vehicle to convey that message:

"I am stronger than you, I will beat you, not because I was born a fighter. It is because I was pushed to this. The path I take is through you, for my people, those that have died and those that suffer on. I will cast you aside the way a fan pushes the air on a warm summer's night. You may not fear my fans, but you will fear me."

That's my take at least.

This, people arguing the fans had nothing to do were idiots and are idiots and never big karma fans.

I for one hate this change due to the lack of fans, the over sexualized "new imagery" to sell you more league of legends pornography, and possible apcarry-support remake. Inb4 the only thing that's the same about karma after this is the ultimate. Even then they will probably remove the charge system or some stupid ****.


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CountAllister

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Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosirius View Post
This looks like trash and the reasoning behind the change are dumb. "herp derp, she's from ionia so she should have silly floaty metal wings duuuuurrrr"
this


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SplendidSorrow

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryOrunitia View Post
. Having a champion without recognizable features/weapons/accessories, it's just bad design.

And don't tell me the jade dragons are original and recognizable because Irelia and the Lunar Revel Cassiopeia skin both have very similar accessories. Didn't Diana's skin get changed just because Syndra had a similar headpiece?
If she was a brand spanking new character would she be entirely distinguishable from everyone else and unique? The answer to that looking at what we've been shown so far is yes. Does she have the old recognizable features of a terrible dress and her fans? No. Does she have new recognizable features? I think so.

Quote:
Also, I honestly don't care at all for characters who are just supposed to represent an idea, a nation, or an element in the lore. I like the champions to be PEOPLE with their memories, their characters, their humor, their different personalities. Karma's fans really meant something to her, they were what she chose to be the vessels of her power because they were a memento from her past. And they fit with her image of classy, collected politician.
So let me get this straight.... You want champions to be like people, however you want them to represent the idea of 'classy, collected politician'....

Quote:
Now she's just generic, an incredibly generic personification of Ionia with seemingly no personality of her own. Some people are excited because to them it looks better than the previous Karma, because they KNOW Karma, but if this were an entirely new champion announced today, would you still be excited? Would you even be able to tell exactly what role she's supposed to play? In the lore, or the game.
See I can do that too... "Karma currently is just generic, an incredibly generic personification of balance with seemingly no personality of her own."

If that was the teaser images we got of a new character? Yes. Said new character would be shooting some kind of laser at Kat...and also HADOUKEN! And apparently occasionally glows.

Quote:
Look at how in the splash art they had to add those swirly green energy things around her hands. Why? Because they're EMPTY, and it looks weird if you don't cover it up somehow. It's just incredibly weird for a mage to be designed like that, it definitely looks more like a fighter kind of character, and I bet that's exactly the reason why a character like Soraka still has her scythe despite not using it AT ALL in her kit.
It doesn't look weird if someone has empty hands. However empty hands tends to personify a martial artist like lee sin. Here they're trying to convey she has magical/mystical powers thus the energies to convey she's focusing that energy (notice the hand gesture and closed eyes).


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Bes7iA

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Senior Member

03-07-2013

a few days ago, i could say that you cant make porn with karma




those days are over...


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Moira

Junior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qonker View Post
I think it is because the fans, while only playing a minor role in her kit, were symbolic of her "enlightened" background. She used an nontraditional weapon, similar to Jax's lamp post, on a battlefield with other champions using swords, guns, etc. which enhanced and spoke to that inner strength you mention. Her resolve is what gave her power, not the fans, but they served as a reminder that she was of a different stature then other champions on the field. She did not rely on conventional weaponry, but her will alone to defeat her enemies.

I think removing the fans were a mistake. If anything they should have played up the fans. It would have allowed them to show that unlike Jax, who uses his physical prowess and skills as fighter overcome a self inclined handicap. Karma's determination and willpower are all she needs. The fans serve as a vehicle to convey that message:

"I am stronger than you, I will beat you, not because I was born a fighter. It is because I was pushed to this. The path I take is through you, for my people, those that have died and those that suffer on. I will cast you aside the way a fan pushes the air on a warm summer's night. You may not fear my fans, but you will fear me."

That's my take at least.

And it's a beautiful take. I must admit I love it. But, to take it one step further: You're right, Karma was not born a fighter. She became one for Ionia. And since her will is her true, nay, only weapon, why is it such a crime if she chooses to let go of the fans? She may not need them as a conduit anymore. Are the important to her? Yes, without question. Does she need them to defeat her enemies? No, she needs only her will.


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CountAllister

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Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bes7iA View Post
a few days ago, i could say that you cant make porn with karma




those days are over...
I rest my case.


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CountAllister

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Senior Member

03-07-2013

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Originally Posted by Calypsx View Post
Her new design looks awful, Karma was really unique before, now she just looks like another pair of magical floating breasts.

So much for creativity. Her portrait reminds me of Syndra, but with green energy instead.

Eeyup, that's probably the reason most people dont even notice karma! Her boobs aren't big enough!

Brilliant idea riot!


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HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moira View Post
You make a fair amount of points. I will admit that Karma's fans have become her icon to the majority of her players. However, my point wasn't "she doesn't use them"; my point was "she is more than the fans." Also, I don't think her fans were designed to be her most recognizable point. I think they simply BECAME her most recognizable point, as did Mordekaiser's mace (which he actually uses in two of his spells, just not in the way expected), and Soraka's staff (which, again, his used in multiple spells, but not in the way expected).

You say that she has lost her personality. Of course she seems to have no real personality right now. We've only seen her splash art and some of her model. We haven't seen her reworked lore, seen her in game effects, or heard her new voiceover. Those are, to me, what really made Karma's personality, not just her splash or her fans.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is this: Can we really say whether this "new" Karma is so far detached from the "old" without first hearing what she has to say and seeing what exactly it is she can do?
You make some pretty good points too. What I mean isn't really that she has no personality at all, of course, just that her personality will probably be a lot more generic. More of a fighter kind of thing that many other female champions already represent. The design and even her posture in the few screenshots definitely seem to suggest that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecklessHansi View Post
It's part of a paradigm shift, like Morello said. To me, it looks like something like this:


The Character evolved from heavenly matron to a wrecked-but rising nation's wise spiritual leader.
She changed her trustworthy fans for the coat of arms from her homeland.
She needed power for the changes that will come under her leadership, so she put away the tiny shy-looking fans for now, to harness her power directly from the source: herself. And come on, we all know that power directly from the source is stronger. Something is lost along the conduits.

Her clothes change also refers to that.
The change of attire, for me, represents the equivalent of someone rolling up the sleeves.
Let's put down this complicated, movement impairing dress for a while, because I may need to chase faster the horde of people I'm about to kick ass.

This **** isnt about her only anymore.
This is about leading her country to prosperity and maybe vengeance.
She can't be shy, reserved anymore. As a leader she gotta be trustworthy, clear and at least show some kind of power, so her people can rest assured, knowing she will protect them.
See, the point is... Why? Why can't we just have a leader that is calm and collected in the way she dresses, the way she behaves and the way she fights? Why does the single character that fits that description have to get changed so dramatically to fit into a completely different archetype? Why do we, the players, have to adapt and reimagine all this weird new personality/lore thing to convince ourselves that she had a midlife crisis and decided to become a sexy girl fighter?

She was the politician. The spiritual leader. Maybe she could've been a religious leader of some sort, but why did she have to be transformed in the battlefield leader? There's the politician, and there's the soldier. Two very different things. The complete shift in her personality and lore just isn't believable or justifiable.