So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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GalactusMultiV

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aoiboshi View Post
incoming karma purchases as everyone jumps on the wagon... Me? I'm a die hard karma fan. She is my favorite support to play.
ikr....I already saw one in a game just now, and besides myself, idk the last time i saw another karma in my game.

I prefer to take her mid though. My fav support is prolly Lulu, and my fav tank is Leona. :3


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AL Penguin

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
As someone who has been involved with the Karma relaunch since the beginning of this project, Karma's story for me is about her transition from the reserved politician to an active leader. She has all this power- her story references it ( By tapping into her inner resilience, she discovered that she could bring great force to bear against her foes on the battlefield. ), but has chosen not to use it to its potential in the past. What costs might that bring with it? In her search for balance and compromise, what might she have lost that a firm stance wouldn't? She hasn't lost her ability to negotiate or guide, but she's gained more conviction to act.

We want Karma to represent balance between the 'old' Ionia and the 'traditional' Ionia - the wise Elders and their traditions and the near-militant youth who grew up under Noxus' thumb. There's costs to making that transition as well. I've got a few stories cooked up about her experiences, but that's all non-cannon and I won't subject you to my fan fictions.



Thanks- we had players like yourself in mind when we had the idea to make a Traditional skin. We want to provide other players with access to the skin as well, however.
I understand now; that's actually a pretty interesting way to look at it and I see a bit where you want her to go; she's trying to be more "down-to-earth" and lead with her fellow kins in the battlefield. Kinda like Marianne in that french painting I forgot the name of (Art major 3rd years I summon you!)

It's just the new classic skin conjure up feelings of passiveness and put off feelings of her being the active leader that will lead Ionia up-front and personal with their enemies. I think it's mostly because her visuals looks like the priestess in warcraft III, and the dress, like many said, reminds people of syndra, leblanc, ahri and malzahar; all selfish, enigmatic, mystical champions that are more about themselves than others (and are almost never at the front of a teamfight). I liked the black and white thematics of Karma b/c I feel like that's what she's grown up seeing and believing in. Like you said, she's about self-discovery and balancing her past with her nation's future, her passive politics with down-to-earth activism. Ying with Yang. Purple just kinda throws her off the picket. (sorry purple lovers)

Also I feel the lacking of fans is severely anti-Ionia. Almost all ionian champions have weapon(s) and the only ionian champion to not have a weapon is a martial arts master. As a politician she should be only an amateur at her burgeoning powers, so it makes sense she needs something to channel her power. Also it resonates with the fact that she is a LEADER, not only because fan ownership are historical aristocratic, but because they're a symbol of how she works, she uses her powers to move others; a soft (albeit immense) power. The only thing more symbolic as her weapon would be a flag. (lolz J4)


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Frubzors

Junior Member

03-06-2013

I just want to point something out that I've noticed as a trend for this whole Karma VU/rework.

The reds are essentially saying that they aren't using the same iteration of Karma as we all know and love.

Why?

Because as the League has evolved, so has she. She has learned much in her time at the Institute. She has learned much as the paragon of Ionia. She has seen things and been part of situations that she might not have normally been thrust in to.

I feel as if this VU/rework is a reflection of her psychological evolution as well as the physical manifestation of how much she has changed in her time with the League.

Yes, she won't have fans any more. Maybe she was originally using them because she thought they were the best at the time, but has now found a way to physically manifest her inner flame. Which she now uses because of efficiency/necessity.

If you look at it from a purely aesthetic perspective, you might be upset about the fans being gone and her attire changing.

From the lore perspective, I think this is one of the most intricately thought up reworks Riot has actually done. The lore is that she has changed. And the rework is materializing this change. Like Karma has found a new peace of mind. We're seeing the physical manifestation of all of the work she has put in to being a Paragon of Ionia and achieving inner peace. It's showing her evolution from the beginning of the League to her current state. And I think it's absolutely fantastic. The layers of it can go quite deep. Regardless if they were actually going for something like that, that's the connection I made with what I've read.

Anyway, on to game play. For any of the reds out there, I haven't seen this answered at all, so yeah.

It has been stated that she will retain her Mantra. Does this mean that she will utilize it in the same way? And if so, has the number of mantra charges she can store gone up or stayed the same?


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iSpy Gecko

Senior Member

03-06-2013

I got the most fans in the whole league and they're all lethal.

loljk not anymore


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Para

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Senior Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Which is why we give you the traditional skin to play if you enjoy it!
I think showing off her body is a side product of the meditation and the need to sit cross legged to do that. You cannot do that when you are wearing a dress.


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Iridos

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Which is why we give you the traditional skin to play if you enjoy it!
Yeah, except that even the traditional skin doesn't actually look like her current skin because the model and artwork are wildly different.

EDIT: Actually, this guy did a really good job of summarizing my issues with new Karma:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn Faal View Post
it's like you turned Michelle Obama into Nicki Minaj.

Keywords from her lore page:
  • superhuman composure
  • contentment
  • negotiated
  • resilience
  • Enlightened

The yin and yang theme of balance fits perfectly with this. As did her style of clothing being conservative, and her posture being regal. She gave the air of being a diplomat with finely honed battle skills just to make everyone else look bad, not in exclusion of everything else.

How does turning her into a colorful show-off with bright painted-on-looking tattoos and "come at me poses" portray that better? Hint: it doesn't.
This is all true of the Traditional Karma skin as well. Yeah, it has a black and white theme... but the original skin is actually a mirrored split between the two, showing them balanced against each other. The new Traditional skin does not do this. We've got all this mystical energy bogus that really doesn't fit her origin story at all, meaning a lot of extra glowing effects that are directly contradictory to her current look. She is no longer wearing a long dress, which I always felt lent itself to showing that she was stylish and composed, more of a leader and a diplomat than a brawler... this is actually probably one of the biggest issues, as I feel that in a long dress a lot of the other problems would clearly look so bad that they would be removed. Obviously the issue with the fans is a problem. The facial structure on the Traditional skin is narrower, giving her a more pointed look that again contradicts the current model's appearance of relaxed balance... there may also be an issue with the eyes, but I'm not good enough at art to take this past "She looks focused and mean instead of balanced and calm." Her jewelry is studded into random places on the white belts instead of being set up as a mirror image, again moving away from the concept of balance... and that's without pointing out that she's suddenly wearing a bunch of gems instead of just a belt, back/chest piece, and fans, which once again is moving away from the minimalist design of the current model that I feel is a powerful statement of self-acceptance. Speaking of which, wtf white belts? She's not Ezreal. Even the hair is wrong... in her current model, her hair shows the only place that she isn't balanced and mirrored with the red streak on the side, emphasizing that while her costume shows her desire for balance, she may not have personally reached perfect balance yet, while in the Traditional skin her hair has mirrored red streaks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I don't actually understand this. Did you expect the model to remain low-res? Is this a fan/no-fan thing? I want to understand, but this is really confusing that this is a feeling someone has on this.
Attempting to summarize here. I'm upset because I feel that the Traditional skin does not actually retain any of the themes that give Karma's current model so much power. Her current model lines up brilliantly with her lore to show off someone who is composed, enlightened, and mature... someone who participates in battle only out of necessity, and whose true strength comes from her ability to recognize when fighting is not necessary. The current model displays this starting from the obvious with a long dress with a theme of black and white balanced and mirrored against each other, with a minimal amount of jewelry and general bling to distract from this image... all of which is fitted into the mirrored and balanced theme. This points to someone who, while capable of fighting, would prefer to find another way if possible, and who is truly focused on inner peace and enlightenment, allowing her to remain calm and composed in any situation. The new model just does not achieve this at all.

The funny thing is that I barely play Karma... I hate her game mechanics passionately. But I've always loved her model and thought that it was one of the best pieces of female artwork in the game, or in most games I've played, showcasing a brilliant matchup between the character's backstory/lore and appearance. I was concerned after the Annie visual rework because I dislike literally every single thing about it, especially the way that it moved her away from the "cute child" concept that was so central to her character, but I felt reassured that it wouldn't happen with Karma because there were actually red posts indicating that the art rework would attempt to retain the most powerful qualities of the old model. Now I find out that not only has that concern been reduced to "We know that we are completely throwing the things that were great about her old model out the window, so here's a skin to make up for it," but the skin in question doesn't even do a good job of reproducing the power of the current model. Does my disappointment and frustration make more sense now?


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Taelyn the Lost

Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Thanks - this is informative.

Because of the rig and how things "work" (shorthand), the fans won't be returning here, but I think that these might have been more important to some die-hard Karma fans than we originally thought.

As our first full overhaul, we want to make sure if there are additional considerations that we take them into account when approaching these. While our decisions can quite possibly at least put off a few players with this kind of stuff, it is food for thought next time.

You could always add the fans to the traditional skin for the hell of it. I don't care either way, but it's just something to think about.


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NamKim

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Love to see what this new Karma can do.

I know that my friend Naotasan (a mid or high elo Dom player who is known for his Karma) will probably be excited over this news since he admitted that the season 3 changes were not too kind on Karma on Dom.

Like some others before me, I was a fan of the fans. However, I still have my real folding fan from Korea to help me get hotter when I am on fire owning with this new Karma on Summoner's Rift, Twisted Treeline, Dominion, and Proving Grounds.


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Drogonno Dragner

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
This was critical to us when updating a character thematically. We just think there's no reason, when updating, we can't also retain the classic character concept as a free skin for legacy fans of the character. Makes it a win-win - get to fix characters with issues in the game, but not "take anything away."
Will Karma donate her old fans so everybody can buy it as a item?

A support item plz

Morello/Riot PLZ :P


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iSpy Gecko

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taelyn the Lost View Post
You could always add the fans to the traditional skin for the hell of it. I don't care either way, but it's just something to think about.
Please do this. Put the fans on traditional. Please riot.