I think BORK is in a good spot, I just think it should cost more...

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snore

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Hi! Do you think that a possible solution for future new items or item changes would be to give options for only ranged and only melee champions, like you did with Runaan's Hurricane and Ravenous Hydra? I personally thought that taking the concept of "AoE auto-attacking" and making unique items with different effects that highlight the appropriate strengths of melee and ranged champions was very cool and innovative, and it made me feel more unique for buying one of those items in a game.

For example, a possible solution for BotRK would be to split it into two items with different effects, such as more slowing power for ADCs and more nuking power for bruisers. I'm just loosely throwing this idea at you for the sake of simple explanation, but do you see this as a possibility right now?


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Juggernaut N

Senior Member

03-04-2013

I think you guys should just change it back to how it was. It made champions like udyr and yi alot better. But if adc's are going to abuse it then the older version would be better.


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jimmy57

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeVentNoir View Post
Except ADC's can't hurt anyone without BotRK, and Bruisers and Tanks are indistinguishable.
agreed kinda mate -
botrk is just basically a must build item atm BECAUSE it's the only good adc item that works vs current meta game.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

03-04-2013
30 of 30 Riot Posts

Quote:
Hi! Do you think that a possible solution for future new items or item changes would be to give options for only ranged and only melee champions, like you did with Runaan's Hurricane and Ravenous Hydra? I personally thought that taking the concept of "AoE auto-attacking" and making unique items with different effects that highlight the appropriate strengths of melee and ranged champions was very cool and innovative, and it made me feel more unique for buying one of those items in a game.

For example, a possible solution for BotRK would be to split it into two items with different effects, such as more slowing power for ADCs and more nuking power for bruisers. I'm just loosely throwing this idea at you for the sake of simple explanation, but do you see this as a possibility right now?
Potentially that might be an idea - but the problem with BoRK isn't that it's too good on melee and not good enough on ranged - or too good on ranged and not good enough on melee. The problem is that it warps the laning phase and is too good for both classes.

If, in the future, it turns out that we're having troubles balancing an item (Say.. Frozen Mallet) for both ranged and melee classes - ranged/melee behavior splits are a last-resort but effective way to solve this.


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NotanNSAplant

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
We haven't started nerfing the bruiser items because it has not been clear that it has been the items that have been doing it.

For example, Xin Zhao is crazy. Sure, itemization helped Xin Zhao a lot - but not all bruisers are crazy. Just a subset of bruisers. Is it an item thing - or do this subset of bruisers share a quality that make them very very good right now?

And as it turns out, they either have ridiculous amounts of free resistances or resistance piercing that were holdovers from S2. At least that's the working theory.



I'll chalk this one up to major misalignment of my theory versus reality.

That and I really didn't consider the early game lane warping enough - which is what is causing a lot of the excess power at the moment.

Basically - my bad.
Xin is a combination of things. What I've noticed is that scaling resists with mobility and cc are the biggest issue. Not that he is painful to trade with because of good stats, but because he can force the trades better than most. That. and a very good W sustain in the jungle.

Look at kayle too. A hefty slow, and a movespeed buff

These champions are good because early game (xin in particular) because they can rush mobility, they have good damage, and they have cc. And snowballing is the name of the game, so strong early game ganks are good. Its the same reason jungle nasus is now viable. He doesn't lose damage from jungling, wither is one of the strongest cc's there is, and he can build tanky.


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Rockman

Senior Member

03-04-2013

You thought about what Irelia could do with Bork. Why did you not consider Trundle?

Trundle steals armor, counterplaying the counterplay to Bork


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Kanimana

Senior Member

03-04-2013

I say leave it and RO alone and create more items. Another early hybrid attack speed AD but with crit instead of life steal and an interesting passive or active would be nice, might even allow for IE to be returned to its former glory.

Another option for health and MR would be nice instead of a nerf on the Bulwark.

I think adding a 2-3 more items would help balance the game a bit more then nefing everything to the ground. I think the game is at this point were base stats and flat health have a bigger impact then a Teir 3 item do to the large amount of nerfs across the board.

But as I said, it's just what I think.


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Mitchwise

Junior Member

03-04-2013

As a Tristana main, I've been following this thread pretty closely because of the synergy BotRK has with her AS steroid and early game burst. Pre-patch, Tristana was starting to feel a little bit more competetive, largely due to the fact that BotRK gave something AS champions like her could use effectively. With a huge nerf to that item, I'm afraid she might fall by the wayside again. Any thoughts on how these changes affect her and possibly other AS champions like Udyr?


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Breakstar

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Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Potentially that might be an idea - but the problem with BoRK isn't that it's too good on melee and not good enough on ranged - or too good on ranged and not good enough on melee. The problem is that it warps the laning phase and is too good for both classes.

If, in the future, it turns out that we're having troubles balancing an item (Say.. Frozen Mallet) for both ranged and melee classes - ranged/melee behavior splits are a last-resort but effective way to solve this.
It's a little clumsy, and it (on some level) feels stifling to creativity. It's why Riot's decided against class-specific items (such as replacing Warmog's/FoN/Insert-Tank-Regen-Item-Here with a 'tanks only' equivalent so brusiers can't use it), right?


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Meowington

Member

03-04-2013

Can we just scrap S3 and go back to S2 items? Seriously. It's been broken item after broken item after broken item. BC, Warmog's, now BotRK. Also, DFG (but only on Eve really). At least in s2 all we had to worry about was champions being strong, but that's expected, whatever. Strong champs AND broken items, it's frustrating.