I think BORK is in a good spot, I just think it should cost more...

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Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Let me present to you two options.

1. Option A - There are no counters to it in the game.

2. Option B - Counters exist to Option B.

How overpowered does Option B has to be before you will take it to Option A?

This is otherwise known as, Irelia syndrome. Irelia has no obvious counters. Anyone who has to compete with Irelia but have valid counters of their own - becomes insanely overpowered by comparison... say.. a certain broken-sword using champion?
Garen's a broken sword-using champion, that's pretty close.
#jokes


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LeVentNoir

Senior Member

03-04-2013

This BotRK is an awesome item. Just REMOVE the ACTIVE. Still a good item. Still gold efficent.

But what do with active? Take an item, give it 80AD, and the 15% total HP as physical + heal active.

What does this do? Well, ADCs buy the new BotRK, since it's about HP shred, AS and minor AD.

Bruisers buy the new item, for AD scaling skills and that big physical nuke.

Much like L's Torment and DFG.


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Krshna

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
At the moment, the changes look like bumping the cost to be equivalent with BT (around a 350 gold cost increase), reducing the damage by 5 and changing the active heal to be post-mitigation.

While this is probably a little much in terms of overnerfing - now that everyone is aware of the power of the item tangentially, it makes it a lot easier to slow-creep it back to a good state without overshooting (which slow-creeping often does.)
That's a major over nerf. It goes from having about 400 gold of free stats, to... well no free stats. Increase the price by 350 and reduce AD by 5, and nerf the hell out of the active. It probably goes into negative free stats at that point lol...

Don't knee jerk and do big changes. Nerf it a tiny little bit. People only think it's so strong cause they are still building HP...


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

03-04-2013
19 of 30 Riot Posts

Quote:
Sidenote: Does Liandry's actually apply the DoT properly on DoT spells like Malzahar's Malefic Visions now?
Each time I test it, it does - but I keep getting reports that it doesn't. Unsure.


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Krshna

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Let me present to you two options.

1. Option A - There are no counters to it in the game.

2. Option B - Counters exist to Option B.

How overpowered does Option B has to be before you will take it to Option A?

This is otherwise known as, Irelia syndrome. Irelia has no obvious counters. Anyone who has to compete with Irelia but have valid counters of their own - becomes insanely overpowered by comparison... say.. a certain broken-sword using champion?
Option C... make Armor and MR better and health worse?


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Fisherman Fizz

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
a certain broken-sword using champion?
So any current BotRK user!


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

03-04-2013
20 of 30 Riot Posts

Quote:
Option C... make Armor and MR better and health worse?
No, that's just option B again.


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Riot Sotere

Game Analyst

03-04-2013

I'm glad we're going to see some fixes come to the item as it clearly got out of hand. But, I've always been under the impression that it is really hard to continuously auto-attack in a team fight setting. This is why generally Tryndamere, Sion, etc. have issues performing as the game goes on. There's a lot of CC.

The one side effect of BotRK being so prevalent is as an ADC or Bruiser who builds it, you actually got attack speed early on. This in my mind makes the fights more interesting because instead of all-out burst being the main force of fights there's a bit more maneuvering and AAing (for the most part, the active adds to much burst).

How does your team feel about the state of auto-attacking especially as the game moves into more involved fights?


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thumbnail9

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
A little bit - However, AD carries themselves weren't contributing as much damage to the team as before - it was simply that the entire team was dealing more damage as a unit.

Carries that built both LW/BC are relatively rare - mostly because that build has no AS/Crit/LS or anything - so most carries only had the 40% armor pen compared to the 46% armor pen they had before. However, since everyone on the team did physical damage, including towers - damage as a whole crept up far too high.
ADC's yeah won't build both BC and LW besides MF, but you had renek's, pants, Lee's, Talon's, Zed's, Kha all doubling the items or back when the flat stacked they'd put 2 on. The build was absolutely dominating on MF, who has since stopped with the nerfs. The ADC itself probably had only around 42% but you have over proliferation of armor shred in a game. Way more then you seen in season 2 and with the new formula it destroyed all the balance you had.

I mean you have an ADC sitting on like 43%+5+innate from champions+ BC. I think this is mainly a problem with how much armor shred is in the game as of right now. A lot of the main champions played all have good armor shred abilities. I think we're facing over saturation more then anything.


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Pro Anïvïa

Senior Member

03-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Each time I test it, it does - but I keep getting reports that it doesn't. Unsure.
maybe it only doesnt if you have multiple damage over time spells active on the target at once that rapidly refresh the debuff like malz E W R combo

i havent actually tested it so i dunno