@Xypherous reasoning for Vayne's AS change not going live?

First Riot Post
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WinterWhispers

Senior Member

03-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Ashe.
*AHEM* On the topic of Ashe, is she getting any love soon?


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LordTobiothan

Senior Member

03-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlargCow View Post
I'm sure you tested lowering the CD on her Q, did it make her too strong?
they actually tested this a little while ago, it proved way to clingy when chasing, to much free poke too often, and too good of an escape.

Just couldnt get it to balance right.


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Gorsz

Member

03-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by die4769 View Post
Right, so it stands to reason that you don't help her early game by giving her a late game buff she doesn't need.


Wow.. quit *****ing.


Vayne is basically a hyper carry late game, a weaker early game is a good trade off.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

03-01-2013
4 of 4 Riot Posts

Minor two step process:

1. Turns out that a minor boost to AS didn't help Vayne as much as we originally thought - due to how Tumble works.

In fact - a minor boost to AS actually caused Tumble to create weird cross-incentives much earlier because of how long you get locked out from autoattacking during Tumble and how it's an attack reset - and thus negates the point of attack speed in the first place.

2. So we just made tumble cheaper.

It was either that - or make the AS boost truly insane - which we really weren't prepared to do.


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Noric

Senior Member

03-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Minor two step process:

1. Turns out that a minor boost to AS didn't help Vayne as much as we originally thought - due to how Tumble works.

In fact - a minor boost to AS actually caused Tumble to create weird cross-patterns much earlier because of how long you get locked out from autoattacking during Tumble and how it's an attack reset - and thus negates the point of attack speed in the first place.

2. So we just made tumble cheaper.

It was either that - or make the AS boost truly insane - which we really weren't prepared to do.
Very Concise.

While you're up can you comment on the Hecarim healing cap issue caused by increasing the heal, increasing the cd and not changing the cap?

(There's a couple threads floating)


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Lvl 8 Psyduck

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Senior Member

03-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Ashe.
Ashe early game is not bad as people assume


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Woodenwingz

Senior Member

03-01-2013

Can you please please please buff her E range match her auto attack range? Would make her lot more playable.


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notSoinan

Senior Member

03-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Minor two step process:

1. Turns out that a minor boost to AS didn't help Vayne as much as we originally thought - due to how Tumble works.

In fact - a minor boost to AS actually caused Tumble to create weird cross-patterns much earlier because of how long you get locked out from autoattacking during Tumble and how it's an attack reset - and thus negates the point of attack speed in the first place.

2. So we just made tumble cheaper.

It was either that - or make the AS boost truly insane - which we really weren't prepared to do.
I understand not implementing the Attack Speed buff but Tumbles mana cost isn't the problem. Running only +3 MP5 from Utility masteries I can Tumble all the time for harass, fleeing, getting missed CS etc. However if I have to Condemn sometimes because of ganks, fleeing from enemy bot lane etc I suddenly find myself horribly mana starved. I think a reduction in the cost on Condemn would have been better since Tumble is already pretty cheap. If I oom on Vayne I never think it was because of too many Tumbles, I always knew it was because I had to Condemn too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodenwingz View Post
Can you please please please buff her E range match her auto attack range? Would make her lot more playable.
This too, being out of range for a clutch Condemn after attacking them is really annoying. It would mainly be a quality of life change anyway. 450 Condemn range compared to a 550 attack range is a pretty glaring difference.


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Noric

Senior Member

03-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by notSoinan View Post
I understand not implementing the Attack Speed buff but Tumbles mana cost isn't the problem. Running only +3 MP5 from Utility masteries I can Tumble all the time for harass, fleeing, getting missed CS etc. However if I have to Condemn sometimes because of ganks, fleeing from enemy bot lane etc I suddenly find myself horribly mana starved. I think a reduction in the cost on Condemn would have been better since Tumble is already pretty cheap. If I oom on Vayne I never think it was because of too many Tumbles, I always knew it was because I had to Condemn too much.



This too, being out of range for a clutch Condemn after attacking them is really annoying. It would mainly be a quality of life change anyway.
Even if Condemn is what is ooming you - you still are probably tumbling. Think of this change as you gaining 10 mana per tumble after a condemn use compared to before..


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BlazingSalvo

Senior Member

03-01-2013

Vayne shouldn't have been mentioned in Xypherous's first post anyway. Varus deserves attack speed more than Vayne.