So now at level 1 Hecarim will only have to do 300 damage to hit the cap

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Cronovey

Senior Member

03-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
You're thinking about it the wrong way. Hecarim's Q deals 16.6% more damage at rank 1. I don't care what kind of math you do it after that; it's dealing 16.6% more damage. His clear is faster.
16.6% more of something insignificant is still rather....insignificant. This buff has literally added the damage of having the Bladed Armor mastery, except in physical damage instead of true damage.

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Maybe a little. However, it was only ever up once on any given camp anyway, and you got to wait on the cooldown while you moved around between camps. Not really that concerned about this one.
Eh, I'm concerned with only being able to use it once on buff camps instead of twice. This is going to be a significant nerf to his jungle sustain and overall health in the jungle during his early clears where he's already at his weakest.

Quote:
Remember also that you're completely forgetting the fact that in anything before rank 3 of the ability, you're healing for more than before in every other situation, which definitely includes all the ganks you should be doing because... Well you're Hecarim. Let's be real. Fighting champions is like what that guy does.
While it gives more in ganks, it isn't removing the minion healing cap so it doesn't give you any sort of early game buff at all. This does nothing to "smooth out his early game jungle" at all, to be honest.

Disappointed that nerfs to his W were shipped as "buffs", honestly. The Q buff is mediocre at best, but the nerf to his W will actually hurt him quite a bit in late game while not providing any of the early game buffing we were supposed to get.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

03-01-2013
2 of 8 Riot Posts

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Originally Posted by Cheeto101 View Post
I get reducing his healing to 20% at all ranks, but why in gods name did you mess with the cd too?????? Upping the level 1 cd by a whopping 6 seconds completely undoes any changes you made to his Q for his early power considering you arn't getting your second point in W until level 8.
Cooldown per level is to give the ability a level incentive. One that's more than just "deals more damage" since it's completely non-obvious if Q or W is better for that purpose. Instead, ranking W is still "I want more heal" which helps players figure out how to play the champion.

Honestly, yeah it is a nerf. It's a nerf to his late-game healing power. The Q/W changes I think wash out, or come close. Personally I don't know if he got overall faster or slower in the jungle. But Deathpony is overpowered and needed to be nerfed.


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Cronovey

Senior Member

03-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Cooldown per level is to give the ability a level incentive. One that's more than just "deals more damage" since it's completely non-obvious if Q or W is better for that purpose. Instead, ranking W is still "I want more heal" which helps players figure out how to play the champion.

Honestly, yeah it is a nerf. It's a nerf to his late-game healing power. The Q/W changes I think wash out, or come close. Personally I don't know if he got overall faster or slower in the jungle. But Deathpony is overpowered and needed to be nerfed.
At least this is a more honest response. I can understand taking down his lategame power; he's nigh invincible if your team can teamfight effectively, especially after buying a Spirit Visage.

It's just the early game "buffs" to his jungle that are actually going to result in nerfs to him while he's at his weakest during his first couple clears that disappoint me.


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Najaina

Senior Member

03-01-2013

Mai pony :/ All of the shadow isles champs are getting nerfed Eve got hit hard and i bet thresh's utility will be hit next (pro;s talk a lot about how his W is ridiculous) and this to Hec. riot y u mean to shadow isle.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

03-01-2013
3 of 8 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronovey View Post
Eh, I'm concerned with only being able to use it once on buff camps instead of twice. This is going to be a significant nerf to his jungle sustain and overall health in the jungle during his early clears where he's already at his weakest.
When would that ever actually happen though? On the first clear you're supposed to have a hard leash on Blue, then use Smite on Red, and then you're going to be like level 5+ and have Spirit Stone and maybe a Pickaxe and would still clear it in just a few seconds.

And again he's getting faster clear speed through the Q buff, meaning less damage taken. I think it equals out.
Quote:

While it gives more in ganks, it isn't removing the minion healing cap so it doesn't give you any sort of early game buff at all. This does nothing to "smooth out his early game jungle" at all, to be honest.
If you aren't ganking at least twice through your first set of double buffs, I feel like you're doing it wrong or your opponents ward like bosses. Of course it's going to add more health to him overall.
Quote:
Disappointed that nerfs to his W were shipped as "buffs", honestly. The Q buff is mediocre at best, but the nerf to his W will actually hurt him quite a bit in late game while not providing any of the early game buffing we were supposed to get.
W is obviously a rank 4-5 nerf. No way it isn't. Hecarim's getting nerfed; that's certain. But when the thread is "Wow dude my level 1 clear sucks harder now" that's just not true.


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Taliesin

Senior Member

03-01-2013

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Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
You're thinking about it the wrong way. Hecarim's Q deals 16.6% more damage at rank 1. I don't care what kind of math you do it after that; it's dealing 16.6% more damage. His clear is faster.

Maybe a little. However, it was only ever up once on any given camp anyway, and you got to wait on the cooldown while you moved around between camps. Not really that concerned about this one.

Remember also that you're completely forgetting the fact that in anything before rank 3 of the ability, you're healing for more than before in every other situation, which definitely includes all the ganks you should be doing because... Well you're Hecarim. Let's be real. Fighting champions is like what that guy does.

You're referring to the "scraped" patch notes put up by fansites on the PBE? The ones that base their "patch notes" upon updates to the tooltips? We updated the tooltip because it was factually inaccurate.

Also, you're calling Spirit of Dread (Hecarim's W) his E. That kinda hurts your credibility man.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt regarding Dread's damage bugfix. But since Dread is at rank 1 until level 8, that's a damned long time you have to contend with that 16 second cooldown. And while you may only use it once for most camps, I used to use it twice for first red clear. Dragon will also be affected. And I imagine there'll be times now when you'll get to the next camp and it'll still be cooling down from the last.

It's a good thing that you'll be getting more health from ganks, because it's likely that you'll be coming out of the jungle with less health than before.

And thanks for catching the E/W thing, I accidentally referred to it as both in my post. Edited that. Doesn't change the fact that I have more games played as Hecarim than any other champion :/


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lol I died again

Member

03-01-2013

Any real Rioters around?


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Cheeto101

Senior Member

03-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Cooldown per level is to give the ability a level incentive. One that's more than just "deals more damage" since it's completely non-obvious if Q or W is better for that purpose. Instead, ranking W is still "I want more heal" which helps players figure out how to play the champion.

Honestly, yeah it is a nerf. It's a nerf to his late-game healing power. The Q/W changes I think wash out, or come close. Personally I don't know if he got overall faster or slower in the jungle. But Deathpony is overpowered and needed to be nerfed.
Its a pretty weak incentive when you consider that his early clears and ganks arn't exactly fantastic, so levelling that W over his Q still isn't really a viable option (especially if the healing% isn't going to scale up as well).

I think if you guys wanted to give Hecarim players some more interesting options when it comes to skill builds, you could do some things with his E so Hecarim players can choose between a safer farm route (leveling his Q) or an aggressive gank oriented route (leveling his E)


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

03-01-2013
4 of 8 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by lol I died again View Post
Any real Rioters around?
You're so silly!


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Best Furry NA

Member

03-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by lol I died again View Post
Any real Rioters around?
You're.... Challenging Phreak.... A known, high-tier jungler...


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