Toxic Behavior is RIOT's Fault

First Riot Post
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NutChip

Senior Member

02-27-2013

It is not the games fault. I have gotten just as angry in WoW as I have in LoL, but I have never insulted a team mate in chat, because it accomplishes nothing. I put every single person who rages in chat on my ignore list because they are ignorant brats. Stop acting like a child. You are not in control of your own actions. A man's emotions are what define him, and control is the hallmark of true strength. To lack feeling is to be dead, but to act on every feeling is to be a child.


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Kaidence

Senior Member

02-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Once you've been matchmade, let say you look up their profile and don't like what you can see. One of two scenarios can happen:

A) Someone assumes negatively about the player
C) Someone berate them when they ignore that non-actionable feedback
B) Someone attempts to terminate the game because they don't like the partner you've gotten

Or
A) You assume they need help
B) Politely offer them advice to help them play the role they have chosen
C) Do your best to help them in game if you know they are in a weak spot

... which one of those sets of options you choose... well, that's up to you. The choice defines the kind of game you're making league into.
D. Be in a queue and already know what everyone and where everyone is playing. Just like basically every game ever known to man.

You are taking a game 100x less complicated then the simplest mmo and making it difficult for people to even start games. Why are we tasked with putting a team together in 30 seconds. It is stupid and ruins your game completely and totally. I might play one game a week when I used to play 5 games a day. Your champion select has turned this game into trash.

Please tell me why people that dominated servers in games like DAOC and Shadowbane and WoW can't get out of bronze. Please tell me cause they are better players then all your sponsored pro's. Take a super complicated pvp game like dark age of camelot and compare it to LoL it is like playing tetris man.


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GeneralHummel

Senior Member

02-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotOpti View Post
In my opinion, given the relatively recent explosion in the popularity of the MOBA genre, gamers just aren't yet accustomed to the level of teamwork that's needed to be successful in it. We've been conditioned to treat teammates as nothing more than slightly more intelligent AI, and it's a humbling experience to be challenged by the requirement of a skill set (team communication) that up to this point has been unnecessary for full enjoyment of a game.
Since this game is so teamwork oriented then it is upon you the developer to encourage and promote team work. I.e., why don't we have voice chat in game?? Why isn't there a better/quicker form of communicating other than stupid pings?


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Angry juju

Senior Member

02-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, in particular, the idea that the things that make LoL fun also cause friction between teammates that result in player behavior problems. I think that any game that has team PVP where you heavily depend upon your team for execution (e.g. teamwork is highly encouraged), there will also be anger when things don't go well. What I don't agree on is that it's Riot's fault. It's actually OUR responsibility -- meaning you the player, and we the developer, to improve player behavior. Riot certainly bears responsibility for improving it, but I think that it's important that players also feel they are responsible for improving it too.

That being said -- I agree with you that a lot of the better player behavior fixes need to be oriented around identifying areas that cause tension and friction between teammates, and smooth them out (to the degree that we don't hurt the game play).

But, we also do need to be banning players who are really toxic, or chronically leave, or whatever.

We need all of the above. I believe that over 2013, we will see more action towards reducing friction between teammates though. So, I agree with you that it's worth investing in.

- Zileas
It is your fault... Considering that League of Legends is lacking certain key features, which ends up leading to players flaming, being racist or overall ruining the game.

For one, why is there no chat wheel? It's impossible for english speaking players to communicate with spanish speaking players because there's no way for the them to talk to each other.

For two, why does ignoring someone disable their pings? I don't want to listen to people flaming me, however I do at least want to know when other people are MIA. I can't ignore people who are flaming me in this game because it's like playing with your eyes closed.


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-27-2013
14 of 25 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mynt View Post
Believe us--if there was a way anymore to cooperate and form strategies, we'd do it. There isn't. We used to. Now we can't. The mages that counter other mages (Morgana) have been reduced. The support that countered top laners (Lulu) had that option taken away. Whenever any strategy does not conform perfectly to the meta, it is killed. See: Jungling Eve, in both her old and new versions. The counter for this would be to run 2 top. But instead, Eve's ability to counter jungle is gimped time and time again. (Recently, her adjustment of the stealth radius prevents her from ganking without getting peeked at by towers.)

Innovators of this game are severely punished, because we're forced to find new champions and strategies every 2 or so weeks. We don't get as much practice. Whereas people who play Graves every game are safe in the knowledge that their champion + strategy will never become irrelevant. They are well practiced.

Consider the meta game. The cumulative knowledge of all players and their views on what works, what doesn't. As long as the average (or mode) of player's opinions are taken into account on balancing, a stale meta will unfold because rather than adjust to champions + strategies that counter their habits, the balance team will simply remove the threat for them. If a strategy is OP because it has a high probability of winning, then there is no point in attempting to discover what strategies a high probability of winning.

And lastly, players have become accustomed to this fact. The motivation for innovating the meta is now 0.

I'm not critizing your company's balancing philosophies. I'm critizing the fact that you simultaneously use this philosophy, and insist that you don't. This contradiction makes solo queue irritating. Does the balance team even have a consensus on whether or not Summoner's Rift is class based or not? Figure it out. Call a meeting, vote, have a brawl, or just flip a coin.
I think you misunderstand why we do changes, (we typically don't do it based on "it's winning," especially now where we're trying to slowly reduce power back down) but I think you're correct that players feel there's little desire to innovate. But I think the balancing philosophy is more loosely tied to this than represented here.

I tend to think human nature really shows how it behaves here though; people's assumptions of what's strong and weak (and especially by how much) is wildly off more often than not. Characters working on competitive play have entirely different interactions in Silver solo queue, not only from a coordination and teamwork standpoint, but also things like regular 2v1's in lane change the dynamic entirely. People tend to make the mistake of being closed-minded to strategies they're not familiar with, and that creates a pressure to not do anything out of the ordinary.

If that stopped being true, I feel innovation would go way up - though asking for that is asking for a fundamental change in human nature.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

02-27-2013
15 of 25 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaesarFlickerman View Post
Not to discount anything, but doesn't it say Riot in front your name in game? That's like getting your **** together for mommy and daddy. Nobody's going to rage or be an ******* in game IN FRONT YOU.

It does not. I prefer to play the game the way everyone else does.


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Skaarrjj

Senior Member

02-27-2013

Could you explain why Lux is basically better than xerath on nearly all fronts? she might not have the raw damage, but she has "enough" damage because her utility is pretty good for her team and the ability to fish with her snares.

Xerath, Ziggs, Brand, and Viktor all kinda share the problem where "great, i have damage, but it's just not "enough".


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ur poop trash

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Senior Member

02-27-2013

You forgot to mention the part where it's extremely easy to report people, so people just spam punish. This is the only game where you can report the other team after the game with no effort, if they dominated you or something. That is probably the biggest culprit to the uncontrollable bans


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Zuchu

Junior Member

02-27-2013

I wanna start by thanking you rioters with putting up with us on the forums. I know it is frustrating, and the opinions presented here are often much more polarized than the game at large. But by considering our opinions you help to validate that this is a game worth playing.

With regards to team comp formation, I believe that you are all stuck between a rock and a hard place. However, with regards to innovation issues, I feel that you actually are in a pretty good place. You basically left hybrid runes/items/masteries lying out there and patiently waited until they would join the meta. Slowly but surely they are. You also have painstakingly preserved some dual role champs like yi, trynd, and kayle, even though others got the axe (sion, eve, etc). I think that the gameplay is in a good spot right now, but I would love to see the meta have a bit more of a choice on a grand scale. For example, dual jungle or 2 top/jungle hybrid could be a thing. Or a roaming support based in mid like taric/ali/lux/zyra etc. It would be nice to have some more flow in how to design a team comp during champ select.


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Sexual Innuendo

Senior Member

02-27-2013

Riot's been great in this thread. I love when they joke around and when they troll, but I sincerely appreciate that they're directing attention to this issue. We could probably all find ways to better our behavior, but giving us more friendly ways to interact with potential teammates would help a lot.