These Riot posts telling people to ignore pick order are doing massive harm.

First Riot Post
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Morello

Lead Designer

02-26-2013
59 of 59 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaolla View Post
you say this as if picking to win and picking in order are mutually exclusive. they aren't

you can have pick order resolution AND still pick to win. and have a better game for it
Then work with your team to get a role comp that makes sense.

Seriously. This isn't that hard - I do it a lot, I do it on smurfs, and I have trolls in champ select very infrequently. It's not hard to get your team to cooperate if you're not being selfish :P


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DopeFreshpr

Junior Member

02-26-2013

Lets all be honest this problem will always be there every one hes bitcjed about getting the lane or role they want and dont say you dont because we both know it aint true
I have done that so have you yet you ***** about it riot cant fix players actions if you dont like those people who do that (count your self) play with a full team not solo theres the solution find friends make a 5 player team


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tehdef

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Then work with your team to get a role comp that makes sense.

Seriously. This isn't that hard - I do it a lot, I do it on smurfs, and I have trolls in champ select very infrequently. It's not hard to get your team to cooperate if you're not being selfish :P
Why though, Morello? Why put that burden on us? Why not do the right thing and knock down some unnecessary barriers preventing players from discussing strategy? Bans? Invade? Play caller? Things that MATTER in the game. Rather than subjecting us to petty disputes, or worse, an un-competitive baseline (Team 1 gets 2 forced roles. Team 2 gets no "forced" roles) where one team has a higher chance of winning based on randomizing a team together with no pre-set shape or composition.

Please, just for once. Do the right thing and acknowledge that forcing people into a random team is detrimental to the ability to have a competitive baseline based on how the selections pan out, and who gets what role. Allow people who want to play a specific role, to queue for THAT role, so we all get what we are best at, and not what we are forced into play.

Competitive disadvantages with no baseline due to randomization is not fun. At all. You have to agree. There is nothing that can change it.


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Dèíty

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Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Then work with your team to get a role comp that makes sense.

Seriously. This isn't that hard - I do it a lot, I do it on smurfs, and I have trolls in champ select very infrequently. It's not hard to get your team to cooperate if you're not being selfish :P
Sigh missing the point. Yes it's possible, yes we do it all the time. What gets old is being forced to be that "nice guy" in every game and giving up your role much more often than you don't. Know what I did to avoid the trolling just so I could get legitimate games and move up in the ladder? I switched to maining support. That's how bad it is. I now play a role I don't even like just to mitigate the fallout caused by your poorly implemented system. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's the way it is and it is UNFAIR to nice people like myself who put the team first.

Stop saddling nice people with all the burdens, this is why humanity created rules, so other people wouldn't take advantage of each others good nature with impunity.


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Wolfenstyne

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Then work with your team to get a role comp that makes sense.

Seriously. This isn't that hard - I do it a lot, I do it on smurfs, and I have trolls in champ select very infrequently. It's not hard to get your team to cooperate if you're not being selfish :P

Your game culture encourages bullies to get what they want. Everyone else has to compromise to the bully yelling mid or feed in chat. You "do it alot" and simultaneously become a doormat for others. So the trolls get their way and everyone nice gets stuck playing support if they want to win.


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Steven Mcburn

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Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by tehdef View Post
Why though, Morello? Why put that burden on us? Why not do the right thing and knock down some unnecessary barriers preventing players from discussing strategy? Bans? Invade? Play caller? Things that MATTER in the game. Rather than subjecting us to petty disputes, or worse, an un-competitive baseline (Team 1 gets 2 forced roles. Team 2 gets no "forced" roles) where one team has a higher chance of winning based on randomizing a team together with no pre-set shape or composition.

Please, just for once. Do the right thing and acknowledge that forcing people into a random team is detrimental to the ability to have a competitive baseline based on how the selections pan out, and who gets what role. Allow people who want to play a specific role, to queue for THAT role, so we all get what we are best at, and not what we are forced into play.

Competitive disadvantages with no baseline due to randomization is not fun. At all. You have to agree. There is nothing that can change it.

You sir are over complicating things. You should be able to play all the roles available at least within 100 elo of where you are, or your elo is inflated and you deserve to lose until you learn them.

It's not like being top only is a game, league of legends is a game, knowing how to do everything not only allows you to fill, but allows you to actually understand the mechanics of teamfighting.

You should be able to openly discuss, and if you're not as boss as I am to get the roles you want via history evidence, fill in roles that other people insist they can't do.


ex:
Today I lost my first game in 10 games, the game afterwards two people on my team insisted they could only mid and top. I had just come off a streak where I'd only lost 1 match in the last 4 days doing top and mid, but did that stop me from jungling to help my team instead? No. And we won because they could actually play top and mid well, and make up for my average jungling.

It's all about compromise. You've got to learn that no one is queuing up to lose, and if someone insists they can't do something then don't make them do it, be the better player and be able to play everything.


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thumbnail9

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaolla View Post
all you need to do is endorse pick order

it's THAT simple.

no elaborate queue systems. no enforcing of a specific meta
No its not that simple, you just don't up and make someone not want to play a role. Pick order does not solve this otherwise PEOPLE WOULD'VE STAYED WITH IT. It was because people were tired of not getting the role they wanted that they moved away from pick order.


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DemacianDerp

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I have faith that our community is mature enough to discover that talking to the other players and working things out together is the best strategy.
You must be new here......


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foxfoot

Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Then work with your team to get a role comp that makes sense.

Seriously. This isn't that hard - I do it a lot, I do it on smurfs, and I have trolls in champ select very infrequently. It's not hard to get your team to cooperate if you're not being selfish :P
I think that this kind of stuff is great, but, that's not what people are doing. There needs to be SOME sort of "law" so that conflicts can be solved.

Situation 1 (current situation):
There's no official rule.

Good scenario:
-What Morello just described (4th pick says "hey, I'm best at mid, and shouldn't jung, what can you guys do?")
-First pick says "Ok, well, I'd like to pick mid too but I'm actually a good jungle so I'll let you.
-Team works out optimal setup

Bad scenario:
-4th pick: "MID!"
-First pick: "Sorry, I'd like to mid too..."
-4th pick "MID OR FEED I CALLED IT"
-1st pick: "I'm first pick! I'd like to play mid!"
-****show, etc

Scenario 2:
There's SOME sort of official, agreed upon rule (for instance, first pick gets their role, if they want it).


Good scenario:
-What Morello just described STILL HAPPENS (4th pick says "hey, I'm best at mid, and shouldn't jung, what can you guys do?")
-First pick says "Ok, well, I'd like to pick mid too but I'm actually a good jungle so I'll let you.
-Team works out optimal setup

Bad scenario:
-4th pick: "MID!"
-First pick: "Sorry, I'd like to mid too, and as first pick I do get precedence"
-4th pick "Fine. Not happy about it but that's true."

Now true, in the "bad scenario" someone's still being a dick. But people are gonna be dicks no matter what - if there's a "rule" it means that when two dicks get into a game together they're less likely to fight it out.


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tehdef

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Mcburn View Post
You sir are over complicating things. You should be able to play all the roles available at least within 100 elo of where you are, or your elo is inflated and you deserve to lose until you learn them.

It's not like being top only is a game, league of legends is a game, knowing how to do everything not only allows you to fill, but allows you to actually understand the mechanics of teamfighting.

You should be able to openly discuss, and if you're not as boss as I am to get the roles you want via history evidence, fill in roles that other people insist they can't do.
Sir, I'm sorry to say, but not even pro players can do that. You ever seen a pro transition from ADC to Top? Happened to Westrice. He got bullied really hard, and lost top quite frequently, and he put AMAZING amount of time into trying to get better at top. However, we are expected to be resilient every game? Never able to find a flow in 1 role because we are expected to be flexible every game and play whatever is left?

I don't buy it. To be good at the game you have to have time to really put yourself to the grind, and master the role. Especially in ranked, because it's where people are trying. Just because you're good in normals at top, doesn't mean you'll be good in ranked.