These Riot posts telling people to ignore pick order are doing massive harm.

First Riot Post
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4saknHero

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
How well do you think someone who claims to be terrible at support will do at support? Do you really want to have that person playing their worst role?

Let me give an example for those who want a structured system.

Person 1 and 2 call mid. Here is the right thing to do. Ask each other what other roles they are good at. Decide together which one should play mid, considering team composition and counter picking. If one of the players states a role that has not yet been filled as a secondary role they are good at, then this becomes easy.
thats all well and good in a fantasy world but heres how it goes

Champ Select comes, 3 things will happen

1. Everyone calls a role and *****es
2. No one bothers speaking at all
3. A Miracle occurs and everyone wants diff roles

You dont have time to say well I can play this and this, because then your taking someone elses role, then you repeat the process untill finally everyone is set, but hey the Leader has been instabanning champs and you have maybe 30 seconds to do this with your entire team (assuming they cooperate, which they wont because most people in league are childish unfortunately) which is no where near enough time to actually get everyone on the same page

And this is why pick order comes into play, you come up, pick what you want, and go into the game, the only reason people care is because they wanna tryhard and play by the current meta instead of everyone having fun and playing what they want


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SPACEPISTOL

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Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AotW King View Post
Because it would set an unbreakable Meta which is not how this game works, ADC support AP mid Bruiser these are all subject to change a year from now ADC's might not even be picked who knows can't just lock a Meta will break the game.
But setting new metas is what normal and team ques are for. Most of the population of players stick by the meta, if they have an idea that can change the meta they should try to get 4 other people who agree with them and see if it works in ranked 5s.

Role que will fix the problem until a new meta is established. Or maybe they can make it an option to role que or just que and decide in the lobby, even that would fix the problem a little.


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Evil Greven

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Here's a thought, make a simple dialog to facilitate communication.
Since usually people fight over lanes, just let people display their numerical order of preference Mid[1], Bot[2], Jung[3], Top[4].

Put it in Profile as an option. People who play pro games are usually in the same lane every game, why can't solo queues at least indicate the same?


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SaltyKracka

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Haha, what a hashinshin topic. *****ing about reds doing something perfectly fine.


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And it was K

Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Why do you think I made a shaman and paladin who can switch roles? Why do you think they made dual specs? Communication and flexibility.
Why do you think I learned to play Support Jarvan? Same thing. How does this help me if TWO OR MORE PLAYERS OTHER THAN ME ARE FIGHTING OVER A ROLE?


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Tbird

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by InertBlowfish View Post
Let me ask you a question grif, have you ever played WoW?

If you have, have you ever gone on a raid?

What do you do when you can't find a healer because they are more rare than diamonds?

You wait until you can find one.

You don't pick up a random person and they say, "I'm going triple tank no healer".



What I'm trying to say is that you can have a perfect community, but at the end of the day people would rather just not play than sit there for 40 minutes wanting to suicide because the person they are supporting has several different 'learning difficulties' (to be politically correct).
Have you ever played arena in WoW? Do you have to role queue for it? No, because you don't have to have heals or tanks or anything. You can play however you want. That is the spirit of League and even though there is a perceived meta, even that perception is always changing. If you picked some of the AD casters and bruisers that go mid now in season 2 people probably would have called you a troll. Just think if we had role queue and no one ever got a chance to do things outside of the meta. I've won a double jungle game in ranked along with a no jungle game. If we were forced to play the meta maybe we would have still won or maybe we wouldn't have won either. The meta is not the only way to play and the meta keeps evolving all the time. There are meta breaking things going on in every high level stream every day.


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VanceStubbs

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Why do you think I made a shaman and paladin who can switch roles? Why do you think they made dual specs? Communication and flexibility.
And this is why I play Leona, Thresh, Lux and Jayce when nobody says a word...


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Griftrix

Senior Animation Engineer

02-25-2013
16 of 59 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsionicApe View Post
How is the race to type a role (especially from a later round of picking in draft) communicating?

How does a player that refuses to type more than three letters reinforce that they are just as good a player as you are?

I try to go into ranked without a superiority complex (you know, the one where players don't deserve to be at this rank, they are much better but the 'trash players' around them are holding them back, and they have to carry teams) but when players take this attitude, and demand roles without ever attempting to communicate, or work with me in champion selection...tell me why I should pick something other than the role I feel can help myself and the teammates that actually act like they want to win a game with teammates?

You can blur the lines all you want about pick order vs calling roles; yes both are inherently 'incorrect' but so many folks here incorrectly assume that calling a role is communicating, when it couldn't be further from the truth. This is the rage that reasonable players are experiencing, when they feel powerless to stop the problem.
Yup. The only stock I put into the things that get typed out is that those players are good at those roles. I ignore the order of the text and try to help people work it out. I'm upfront and honest about where I am best, second best, OK, and absolutely terrible (ADC, I can't position correctly, too used to initiators). It has worked well for me.


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AotW King

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Why do you think I made a shaman and paladin who can switch roles? Why do you think they made dual specs? Communication and flexibility.
This is a fair point Grif but for Heroic level Raiding you need people who are really good at there role and while its true some people can switch between there toons and be a healer or dps or Tank the reality the higher Elo you are the more important you stick to your specialty.

I agree with your philosophy and Its how the game should be but does being a silver 1 support top mid jungle and adc get your to diamond more then being a diamond 1 Top and Mid does?

Also I'm with you I just play to have fun just trying to see if you have any answers for these.


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Rynac

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Griftrix, I agree with what you're saying and agree that it definitely should be that way, but unfortunately the world isn't a very nice place. Giving trolls what they want just further cements in their head that them trolling gets them what they want by forcing people to work around them, and they will continue to troll because it has proven to be successful.

If they truely are bad at support or whatever then how are they ever going to improve if they never play those roles? If someone picks a role already picked instead of themselves picking around the best response is to ignore them, and if they don't queue dodge, take the unfortunate loss, and have everyone report that person. That person will get banned and hopefully they will realize that sometimes they aren't going to get what they want and they should work around that like you're telling everyone else to do.