These Riot posts telling people to ignore pick order are doing massive harm.

First Riot Post
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AlmightyAtheismo

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I have faith that our community is mature enough to discover that talking to the other players and working things out together is the best strategy.


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30 Helens

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerglinator View Post
Griftrix does not have Riot in front of his summoner name. He's been over this.

Also, I find it kind of naive that people think that Riot saying "Pick order>call order" or "Call order>pick order" will somehow make people stop arguing about it.

Has he? Is that just his forum name or his in-game summoner name as well?

Regardless, I assume most people are pretty familiar with Riot employees. I wouldn't be caught dead being uncooperative in champion select with a summoner named Morello for instance.


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I have faith that our community is mature enough to discover that talking to the other players and working things out together is the best strategy.
But it's clearly not. If one person is not yielding despite conversation then that person is a problem, even if the other 4 can change roles. Riot acts like all the discussion happens before we pick champs, but I find that often the troll that says I can't sup I need mid is discussing his inability to contribute in ranked games after others have picked their champs.

Playing a mid like Diana you can easily compromise and choose another roll, play Ahri mid and have the "mid because I can't sup" doesn't work anymore.

It takes 5 people working together to create harmony, not 4, not 3, not less, all 5 or it is completely lost. It takes rules to create order. We currently have Riot stressing harmony that simply doesn't exist in 20% of the games and refuses the other option of order.

Since harmony won't happen can we just have a stupid rule so we can have order?


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MisterKaras

Senior Member

02-25-2013

well, its a damn good thing that riot has no control over tribunal punishments, and when they start getting a ton of cards saying the community wants people banned for call racing riot will have to change their stance.

Im making sure to punish on pick trollers, how about you?


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Owlnoxus

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmightyAtheismo View Post
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kid blew that statement out of the water at one fell swoop


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Bullettime7

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThanksALatte View Post
What it should be: pick order is the ultimatum. If you want to be the bigger person and increase your chances of winning, learn all roles and offer to fill. But in the end, pick order supersedes call order.
Yup. The nice thing is that if pick order is reinforced, there's still avenues of communication. Like if you want to top as first pick and Amumu is left open, you can still take Amumu and trade it off with someone else among you who you work with who's willing to jungle.

Pick order quite frankly is the most fair. Everyone will have times at the top, bottom, and everywhere in between. Enforcing pick order also still leaves communication on the table. If they enforced that and gave us a way to report Champ Select chat behavior, ranked would clean itself up and become a less toxic and more competitive environment fast.


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Undead1

Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
How well do you think someone who claims to be terrible at support will do at support? Do you really want to have that person playing their worst role?

Let me give an example for those who want a structured system.

Person 1 and 2 call mid. Here is the right thing to do. Ask each other what other roles they are good at. Decide together which one should play mid, considering team composition and counter picking. If one of the players states a role that has not yet been filled as a secondary role they are good at, then this becomes easy.
Lets consider a system where role picking is allowed. In WOW you could randomly queue for a dungeon as either a tank, healer, or 1 of the 3 ever popular DPS. If you chose to play a tank or a healer you would generally be rewarded by much short queue times. This resulted in a self correcting system where although few players wanted to stress of healing or tanking, those who took on that role received a reward for playing them -- shorter queues.

In LOL there are 5 positions to play; and some are more desirable to play then others. It's not an even mix, and players have strong preferences. But most are good citizens and will defer their preferred position to either a called request or an earlier pick.

But sometimes a player really wants to play something, and they dont get to for a game, or the next game, or the game after that. Now your team has an angry frustrated player who really wants to play a certain role. Only when they queue up another player on the team is just as upset, frustrated, and wants the same position. It happens so much more because of the increased popularity of certain positions; and it results in conflict over what positions get played because being forced to defer multiple times causes aggravation and strife.

I think riots position that everyone should just come to a mutual understanding about whats best for the team is incredibly naive and flawed. It works "most" of the time; but there is huge room for improvement. You can throw out all the happy scenarios you want, but your just in denial that angry frustrated players wanting to play the same role will collide in selection.


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Ryedan

Visual Designer

02-25-2013
5 of 59 Riot Posts

The reality is, we would need to make structural changes to the game flow to enforce either side. It would be dumb to take a stance on this issue but still allow people to operate as if that stance did not exist.

It's not like we fundamentally agree there should be confusion and anarchy every champion select. We agree it's not fun to "negotiate" fun.


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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Seriously though, nothing against you personally Griftrix, but I don't even read your posts on red tracker anymore...


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Helens View Post
Has he? Is that just his forum name or his in-game summoner name as well?

Regardless, I assume most people are pretty familiar with Riot employees. I wouldn't be caught dead being uncooperative in champion select with a summoner named Morello for instance.
His in game summoner name is "Griftrix" and nothing more. People have brought this argument to Grif multiple times, and each time the response is the same:

1. He does not have Riot in his name in game
2. He hardly ever mentions he's a Rioter in game
3. There have been only a few times in game that people have openly recognized him as a Rioter.