@Riot, What's your opinion on Youmuu's Ghostblade?

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Fenix9000

Senior Member

02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xengre View Post
I gave a response.
Champions that would get a 2nd Phantom Dancer that are melee would get a dps boost from it instead of getting PD #2 during its active.
Could you not get a different specialized item instead though? that would amplify the crits (Maybe IE, or BT for sheer amounts of AD)


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Fenix9000

Senior Member

02-24-2013

Bump for meaningful discussion


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Your Shadow

Senior Member

02-24-2013

I like both it and the young lady it's named after, but it doesn't feel strong enough to merit getting it as opposed to Black Cleaver.


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Fenix9000

Senior Member

02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
I think it's pretty good.

To expand slightly - i only ever buy it on Fiora, but it's usually a first item directly behind vamp scepter and i credit that buy to solely winning me the game. I know SmashGizmo has a soft spot for it in his Xin Zhao builds (and the man plays an absurd number of solo Xin games). My feel is just that currently there aren't a lot of dudes who auto attack - and if they do auto attack (Like Xin, for instance) they're often jungling and being used for the utility they bring, so they focus on buys like Locket or Bulwark.

Since S3, i've seen Ghostblade used/used myself on no less than Fiora, Xin, Tryndamere, Garen, Renekton, Olaf, and Nocturne to great effect. It's probably just geared towards a playstyle that isn't mega popular, despite being pretty useful (i get a ton of free stats, so let me stack some cheap multiplier steroids and run you over with them).
Also, which multiplier steroids are you referring to?


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AquaDragon42

Senior Member

02-24-2013

this item seems to be only viable in specific situations and only with a few champions. I think it should be buffed so that it is good for more than just a specific few.


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Tenant

Friend of Urf

02-24-2013

I like it on champions that do a lot of auto-attacking for their damage. I consider buying it when I play champs like Fiora, Tryndamere, Master Yi, Shyvana, Xin Zhao, and Rengar. The active is always up now when I need it since they reduced the CD, and it's all-around just pretty versatile on those champions.

For Rengar in particular, I prefer a Ghostblade on him rather than a Black Cleaver since his damage is almost strictly coming from auto-attacks; he doesn't have much else in the way of physical damage on his abilities other than Bola, so he can't really take advantage of the Cleaver's passive more than someone like Wukong or Talon could. And my favorite item to go along with Ghostblade is a Randuin's Omen, so I can jump up from stealth and pop both at the same time, making me move and attack super fast and making the ADC move and attack super slow

I think it's a fine item, though it isn't as versatile an item like Cleaver is in terms of how many champions actually would enjoy it, which isn't really a bad thing, but a lot of people end up underestimating it as a result.


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Fenix9000

Senior Member

02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaDragon42 View Post
this item seems to be only viable in specific situations and only with a few champions. I think it should be buffed so that it is good for more than just a specific few.
Judging by his response, I think he wants to keep it niche, but incredibly strong on those champions it's niche on.
Still not sure whether 2 specialized items would not accomplish the job better than GB + some item (specialized or otherwise)


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Fenix9000

Senior Member

02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenant View Post
I like it on champions that do a lot of auto-attacking for their damage. I consider buying it when I play champs like Fiora, Tryndamere, Master Yi, Shyvana, Xin Zhao, and Rengar. The active is always up now when I need it since they reduced the CD, and it's all-around just pretty versatile on those champions.

For Rengar in particular, I prefer a Ghostblade on him rather than a Black Cleaver since his damage is almost strictly coming from auto-attacks; he doesn't have much else in the way of physical damage on his abilities other than Bola, so he can't really take advantage of the Cleaver's passive more than someone like Wukong or Talon could. And my favorite item to go along with Ghostblade is a Randuin's Omen, so I can jump up from stealth and pop both at the same time, making me move and attack super fast and making the ADC move and attack super slow
Ironically, BC is a recommended item on Rengar, go figure
:P


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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

02-24-2013
2 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaDragon42 View Post
It might be a decent item, but at it's current cost and when compaired to Black Cleaver there is no question about which item the top lane AD is going to build their Brutalizer into
You might be right that Black Cleaver is a better team-buy, but i'm not so sure that it's always the better upgrade. Avarice + Brut + 563~ has always been a better buildup in my eyes than Brut + Ruby + 1188~ as far as tempo goes - but also the jump you get for completeing ghostblade vs BC has always just seemed larger to me (at least with the cleaver nerfs).

So, i have a brutalizer. That's pretty cool - Armor penetration and the CDR and all that. Upgrade to a BC, and suddenly...i have 25 more AD and 20 more HP than the ruby i just had, and now i have to stack up this debuff on my opponent that reduces 25% of their armor in the laning phase? Even at higher level play, most casters/assassins will leave their Brutalizer at just that and hold off on getting the cleaver until later - unless in specific cases like Garen (who stacks the BC in just one spin).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenix9000 View Post
A first item on fiora?
Couldn't you just hold Brut (and therefore hold where most of the gold efficiency comes from)
and begin building something else (Zeal for instance)
Glad to see that you provided a response and some situations.
But.... er... Garen and Renekton?
It seems to me that they would benefit more from AD caster items like BT and BC
Can you go into a bit more depth, Don;t get me wrong, I appreciate the response, but a bit more info would really be appreciated.
You could possibly get Zeal - on Fiora at least, i usually build like an AD caster early (taking advantage of her insane burst potential + AD scaling - i used to rock Fiora mid quite a lot) but later on transition into a melee-carry build, relying on her insane Burst of Speed refresh + Ghsotblade combo steroid to carry me on the attack-speed side of things. I'll usually go for Ghostblade + Bloody Hydra then maybe an Infinity edge to give her ruler a bit more oomph. Personal preference though - if PD is your thing, you can certainly go down that road, just a bit too much sustained DPS for my tastes and not 'oh god that fiora just hit me like a truck, inside of a truck, with more trucks inside'.

As for Garen and Renekton getting ghostblades - Garen's case is actually pretty awesome (i'll usually get -both- BC and ghostblade) because of how well he scales with CDR, Crit, and Armor Penetration. A Garen-teed 6 second movement speed boost is also never bad to have when you're juggernauting past the frontlines into danger. Renekton also makes good use of both the basic stats and the active movement speed boost, since he becomes a swirling pool of death for like 50s when he uses his ult, being close after you is kind of a good thing.


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AquaDragon42

Senior Member

02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenix9000 View Post
Judging by his response, I think he wants to keep it niche, but incredibly strong on those champions it's niche on.
Still not sure whether 2 specialized items would not accomplish the job better than GB + some item (specialized or otherwise)
this item is already niche, we can at least make it less of a niche item like Black Cleaver