Can I get some actual factual data on how this new system works, and how it is fair?

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

angryWelchMan

Senior Member

02-23-2013

LolKing Score based on my understanding (granted this is just from what everybody I have ever "spoken" to on the forums has said and I have no hard proof) is your aproximite MMR. But it appears you may be right. So sorry LolKing Score is not MMR

So we don't know your MMR nor can we. But your situation is a text book definition of clamping. Your in division 1 looking to go to the next tier the higher you get in LP the less LP you get per game. Therefore we can assume that you are clamping. To unclamp all you have to do is win and get your MMR up.

That is the reason you are not ranking up while others are.

As for your edit, How do you expect me to come up with numbers that are just for use internally by riot and unpublished? Do you really expect me to be able to, or have the desire to, hack into LOLs database, find your MMR, find the formula for MMR, then do a completely survey to find the average MMR differnce between teams so I can give you an average win rate youll have to have to unclamp?

As for proof was the thread full of red posts telling you exactly how the system works not enough?
here's one the talks directly about clamping
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3118216
the first post under "leagues" it talks about spreading out the effects of clamping

I am trying to find the thread where riot discussed clamping in detail but I cant

Here another one talking about clamping
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...34623#34734623


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Endaar

Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by angryWelchMan View Post
LolKing Score based on my understanding (granted this is just from what everybody I have ever "spoken" to on the forums has said and I have no hard proof) is your aproximite MMR. But it appears you may be right. So sorry LolKing Score is not MMR

So we don't know your MMR nor can we. But your situation is a text book definition of clamping. Your in division 1 looking to go to the next tier the higher you get in LP the less LP you get per game. Therefore we can assume that you are clamping. To unclamp all you have to do is win and get your MMR up.

That is the reason you are not ranking up while others are.
This is exactly the point of my original post/thread. Why did we switch to a new ranking system of leagues and divisions when they aren't actually your rank, and everything that actually matters is hidden from the public? How can we ever know where we truly are and if the system is working as intended or broken?

Quote:
As for your edit, How do you expect me to come up with numbers that are just for use internally by riot and unpublished? Do you really expect me to be able to, or have the desire to, hack into LOLs database, find your MMR, find the formula for MMR, then do a completely survey to find the average MMR differnce between teams so I can give you an average win rate youll have to have to unclamp?
My thread was not directed specifically at you, or anyone (except maybe riot). I don't expect you to come up with anything, or even reply. I just expect that when I ask for hard numbers or information, that only people with that actual knowledge (even if it's only RIOT that has them) will reply, and not clutter my thread with stuff I already know or that is simply speculation.

Quote:
As for proof was the thread full of red posts telling you exactly how the system works not enough?
here's one the talks directly about clamping
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3118216
the first post under "leagues" it talks about spreading out the effects of clamping

I am trying to find the thread where riot discussed clamping in detail but I cant

Here another one talking about clamping
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...34623#34734623
I don't know how I haven't made this clear by now, but I will put it in bold so that it will not need to be discussed further: I understand what clamping is

I want to know why I am being clamped this whole time, with above 50% win rate, while someone with the exact same elo or less elo when the system was implemented, with around a 40% win rate, has been able to rise 6 divisions, because they get 30 LP per win and 8 for a loss. Where are the numbers and facts that say this is working as intended? (If you don't have them... then there is no need for you to reply further in this thread)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Endaar

Member

02-24-2013

*crickets chirping*


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Morbius2271

Senior Member

02-24-2013

I tried a simplified version, op was unsatisfied. Someone comes along and gives you an in-depth breakdown, still not satisfied. This all boils down to, you are not good enough to rank up yet. Live with it. We all play in the same system, it's not like you are being singled out. When you are skilled enough to advance, you will advance.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Endaar

Member

02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbius2271 View Post
I tried a simplified version, op was unsatisfied. Someone comes along and gives you an in-depth breakdown, still not satisfied. This all boils down to, you are not good enough to rank up yet. Live with it. We all play in the same system, it's not like you are being singled out. When you are skilled enough to advance, you will advance.
Simplified version of what? You didn't answer any of my questions.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Morbius2271

Senior Member

02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endaar View Post
This is exactly the point of my original post/thread. Why did we switch to a new ranking system of leagues and divisions when they aren't actually your rank, and everything that actually matters is hidden from the public? How can we ever know where we truly are and if the system is working as intended or broken?



My thread was not directed specifically at you, or anyone (except maybe riot). I don't expect you to come up with anything, or even reply. I just expect that when I ask for hard numbers or information, that only people with that actual knowledge (even if it's only RIOT that has them) will reply, and not clutter my thread with stuff I already know or that is simply speculation.



I don't know how I haven't made this clear by now, but I will put it in bold so that it will not need to be discussed further: I understand what clamping is

I want to know why I am being clamped this whole time, with above 50% win rate, while someone with the exact same elo or less elo when the system was implemented, with around a 40% win rate, has been able to rise 6 divisions, because they get 30 LP per win and 8 for a loss. Where are the numbers and facts that say this is working as intended? (If you don't have them... then there is no need for you to reply further in this thread)
This is the last post I will bother with on this thread, as you are obviously just whining because you aren't ranking up as fast as other people. You would not be whining if you were not being clamped and someone else was.

The fact is, you will not get specific numbers. Riot, like all companies, keep their hidden MMR hidden. They may tell some of it, but they do and always will keep some of it private. Even in the old system, there were factors to the calculation that were hidden. My advice to you, is stop pissing yourself over it. This is a game. Have fun playing it and know that you will rank up when you deserve to rank up. The new system is intended to make it feel like you are always progressing, even when your not. So you can go on a 10 game losing streak and tank your MMR, but you will stay in your league and just drop division. If you don't like it, play normals. And in all honesty, you should play normals if you are going to be butthurt when your skills are stopping you from advancing. I'm not advancing at all, no matter how much I win, but I'm not complaining. Instead, I'm working to improve my gameplay while having fun doing it. I may go on a 3 or 5 game win streak getting ~20 LP per win, but then I might go on an equal or worse losing streak losing up to 30 LP per lose. This doesn't mean the system is broken, it means I'm not playing as good as the system thought I was. Work on yourself and stop blaming the system.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Endaar

Member

02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbius2271 View Post
This is the last post I will bother with on this thread, as you are obviously just whining because you aren't ranking up as fast as other people. You would not be whining if you were not being clamped and someone else was.

The fact is, you will not get specific numbers. Riot, like all companies, keep their hidden MMR hidden. They may tell some of it, but they do and always will keep some of it private. Even in the old system, there were factors to the calculation that were hidden. My advice to you, is stop pissing yourself over it. This is a game. Have fun playing it and know that you will rank up when you deserve to rank up. The new system is intended to make it feel like you are always progressing, even when your not. So you can go on a 10 game losing streak and tank your MMR, but you will stay in your league and just drop division. If you don't like it, play normals. And in all honesty, you should play normals if you are going to be butthurt when your skills are stopping you from advancing. I'm not advancing at all, no matter how much I win, but I'm not complaining. Instead, I'm working to improve my gameplay while having fun doing it. I may go on a 3 or 5 game win streak getting ~20 LP per win, but then I might go on an equal or worse losing streak losing up to 30 LP per lose. This doesn't mean the system is broken, it means I'm not playing as good as the system thought I was. Work on yourself and stop blaming the system.
Again, you have not and are not answering any of my questions. I didn't make this thread to complain, I made it to get answers on how things specifically work, and if they are working as intended because it does not appear so to me. I still play ranked when I want to play ranked and still play normals when I want to play normals.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Morbius2271

Senior Member

02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endaar View Post
Again, you have not and are not answering any of my questions. I didn't make this thread to complain, I mad it to get answers on how things specifically work, and if they are working as intended because it does not appear so to me. I still play ranked when I want to play ranked and still play normals when I want to play normals.
You have received a simple and an in-depth answer to how the system works, you were not satisfied with those answers. There is nothing else anyone can do for you unless Riot wants to share their secret formulas with you.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Endaar

Member

02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbius2271 View Post
You have received a simple and an in-depth answer to how the system works, you were not satisfied with those answers. There is nothing else anyone can do for you unless Riot wants to share their secret formulas with you.
You ... just... aren't getting it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

angryWelchMan

Senior Member

02-24-2013

No you are not getting it, the answers you want aren't and will never be answered so don't bump this thread.

If you can"t except that your a silver 1 player that's on you