Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

First Riot Post
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Shurelia

Associate Game Designer

10-15-2010

I'm not sure if this has been said already, but one problem with Bloodseeker's Rupture ability is...

As a new player, when you see yourself bursting in blood, and you see a melee dpser running at you... the first reaction would be to RUN! However thats counter-productive since if you run you take massive damage, and bloodseeker runs faster at you.

Poor new players... = (


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Dark Harmony

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I disagree with you. Swirly ankhs are kinda clear ;p
... I always thought those were weird-shaped clocks.


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Ponies Gonna Pwn

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Adjudicator

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valeyon View Post
I sifted through the thread and didn't see this point (may have missed it), but with Rupture, it was super frustrating if you were the one with low health and you got Ruptured. You basically had 2 choices:

A) Run and die from the DoT
B) Stand there and let them kill you anyways

Basically, either way you're screwed. So even if it wasn't Burden of Knowledge, it is Anti-fun > Fun. Either way it should be avoided.
C) Use a TP scroll and laugh at his useless ultimate


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

10-15-2010
24 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Awesome View Post
Posts like these make me happy. You sum up these concepts so clearly it's a wonder there seem to be so many game companies out there that haven't heard of them.
We wonder too, and it's why we hire so many associate designers and so few senior designers. A lot of people with experience simply don't know this stuff, and thus, are more expensive, but know just as much as a starting guy.

Quote:
I particularly find the "burden of knowledge" bit to be an interesting challenge, and one that Riot has dealt with admirably. I think you guys have done a pretty remarkable job of having abilities that have all sorts of clever interactions that don't require terribly detailed knowledge on the victim's part to at least have a clue as to what's going on--the general, net outcome of the interactions is more than clear enough without having to know the nitty-gritty details.
Thanks, and yes, that's the key -- how much you need to know to react adn enjoy reacting.

Quote:
You don't have to know exactly how complicated Twisted Fate is to know that he stuns you a lot, and whenever that flaming eye appears above your head, he always seems to appear right next to you when you really, really don't want to see him. You don't have to know that Rocket Jump refreshes on kill or assist, just that Tristana is really dangerous and always seems to clean up fights really well. It makes for a lot of fun for the person using the clever ability, without inflicting too much pain on the target just because they don't know what's going on. When it works best, it makes the victim understand the end result of what happened, then ask "I wonder why exactly that happened?" He understands enough to play the game he's in now, but he'll want to go read that champion and be better prepared for next time.
Correct

Quote:
(By the way, have you had a chance to review *that email* I sent you recently? I'm sure you've been incredibly busy with the patch coming up next week, but I'm about to pop with anticipation for hearing your response...)
Yeah like, i'm really hosed. feel free to resend, I'm going through my recruiting folder.


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Lazersharkzilla

Junior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knote View Post
vs. Lina's ult where she just nukes you for 9000+ dmg and you don't get a choice anyway. Where as Rupture still gives you a chance, if you overextend without a plan B you deserve it. A teammate can still come in and save you from rupture/bs.
Much like Garen's ult, you still have a chance at running and getting away. I've been super low health and brush-dodged more than one Garen/Lina-type character. You still have options is the difference vs. run and die or stand there and die. If you're a squishy, LOL at teammates doing anything to save you short of a taunt/stun.


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Ragnaros

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I disagree with you. Swirly ankhs are kinda clear ;p
They are ankhs? I always saw hour glasses O_o. Either way, I disagree with you because I wondered the same thing this guy wondered. As I said though, I figured it out and everything is now hunky dory. I think the Poppy example is awesome, that confused the heck out of me as well but notice that the poster said that he wouldn't want her changed.

We are smart, give is cool stuff .


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Dark Harmony

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaolla View Post
case in point: vlad.

a de-agro, pool into the ground AoE dot effect that slows you?
an AoE delayed nuke that increases all damage taken while the effect is on you?

Even worse, since his nuke pops when the ult ends, if you Quicksilver Sash out of it you just take the damage faster :[. Totally a false-choice!


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Lord GiantR

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aratrok the Pony View Post
C) Use a TP scroll and laugh at his useless ultimate

D) Tp scroll damages you after you survive on 200 and die anyways :P.


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Lord GiantR

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnaros View Post
They are ankhs? I always saw hour glasses O_o. Either way, I disagree with you because I wondered the same thing this guy wondered. As I said though, I figured it out and everything is now hunky dory. I think the Poppy example is awesome, that confused the heck out of me as well but notice that the poster said that he wouldn't want her changed.

We are smart, give is cool stuff .

They were ankhs in beta. Hourglasses though seemed to fit better with the theme.


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Lazersharkzilla

Junior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aratrok the Pony View Post
C) Use a TP scroll and laugh at his useless ultimate
Except there's no TP scrolls in LoL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurelia View Post
I'm not sure if this has been said already, but one problem with Bloodseeker's Rupture ability is...

As a new player, when you see yourself bursting in blood, and you see a melee dpser running at you... the first reaction would be to RUN! However thats counter-productive since if you run you take massive damage, and bloodseeker runs faster at you.

Poor new players... = (

My point exactly.