Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

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CrimsonRipper

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord GiantR View Post
We R smart. But I've seen pretty strange things in LoL after release.
Smart... tell that to the solo Ranked qeue of Teemo, Ryze, Kat, and Mundo that I qeue dodged.


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

10-15-2010
20 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Harmony View Post
Regarding Conflicted Purpose:

How do you feel about Poppy's Ult? You have the choice of doing one (and ONLY one) of the three:

1. Putting it on a target, and being unstoppable while killing them
2. Putting it on someone you don't intend to kill, then taking down a high priority target
3. Using it to get away

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't change anything about Poppy for the world, but I'm sometimes surprised it got through Design with how tough it is to use.
Yes, like I said, we mess up sometimes. This is a case of where the design was not as clean.


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Knote

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valeyon View Post
I sifted through the thread and didn't see this point (may have missed it), but with Rupture, it was super frustrating if you were the one with low health and you got Ruptured. You basically had 2 choices:

A) Run and die from the DoT
B) Stand there and let them kill you anyways

Basically, either way you're screwed. So even if it wasn't Burden of Knowledge, it is Anti-fun > Fun. Either way it should be avoided.
vs. Lina's ult where she just nukes you for 9000+ dmg and you don't get a choice anyway. Where as Rupture still gives you a chance, if you overextend without a plan B you deserve it. A teammate can still come in and save you from rupture/bs.


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DSG

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

I would like to bring the anti-logical status that is fear or at least how it is coded.
Say you're running away from a fiddlesticks and he hits you with his fear skill. Most of the times you'll turn your back away from your scape route and run into his direction. But... isn't HE the source of your fear? Why would someoen cowered in fear would RUN IN THE DIRECTION OF THE SOURCE?
I've been troubled and annoyed by this since I was hit with a fear that looked like a taunt.
I hope you can fix that, mr. Zileas.


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

10-15-2010
21 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamscribe View Post
What Zileas means by "Burden of Knowledge" extends beyond just "I don't know what that ability was".

You have to consider that much of what "Burden of Knowledge" entails is also about something that Zileas didn't cover, but in my mind is a corollary Anti-Pattern to "Burden of Knowledge":

Lack of Communication

Communication is a vital part of video games. Without it, video games become frustrating and inaccessible. So what's considered communication? It can vary, and normally does, based what needs to be communicated. Take for instance Master Yi's Highlander ability. You're playing against Master Yi. Suddenly, you see him burst toward you. You hear a particular sound effect associated with his accelerated movement and see different particle effects surrounding him. Intuitively, you understand that he's used an ability. You may not know just by seeing it what all of the effects are, but you know it increases his movement speed.

As Yi comes into range and starts attacking you, you notice that he's striking far faster than he was when he was hitting the creeps in your lane just a moment ago. Noticing that your health is running low, you cast Exhaust on him and begin to retreat to your turret. But wait, you see something on screen: "Cannot Be Slowed!" in red text. As Exhaust wears off, Master Yi lands a killing blow on you and retreats.

Within this small example, you've seen about six or seven pieces of well-communicated information. Though frustrating to die, the effects of the ability were communicated well enough that you could understand many of the mechanics without having to be in a similar situation multiple times to learn how the ability works. That's good communication. Good communication also gives you incentive to counter-play, because good communication lets people understand what parts of an ability you can counter in a particular fashion and which parts of an ability cannot be countered in certain ways.

It also introduces challenges. By removing some - but not all - of the guesswork, it challenges players to come up with ways of countering abilities, while not punishing them too harshly for being wrong. In some ways, communication helps players reach their potential. Lack of Communication squelches potential fun by making the barrier of entry seem insurmountable.




tl;dr Wall of design theory text crits of 9000.

Patch notes 10/15/2010

Wall of design theory text now crits for 9001.
yes, good communication is key to allow people to get past the learning stage and into the engaged tactical and strategic stages of playing the game.


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Dark Harmony

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Yes, like I said, we mess up sometimes. This is a case of where the design was not as clean.
So how do you feel about changing it to bonus damage on everyone BUT the target? Or, alternately, not wearing off when the target dies :3?

Also, thanks for making this thread. I learned something today!


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

10-15-2010
22 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destabilizator View Post
Zilean's ult? I certainly remember after I attempted to tower dive him and killed him, yet he popped up again, I tought "WTF?" And went over to webpage to see what he does. I can say you can compare it to rupture, knowledge-needed-before-going-for-it-wise.
We all learn by mistakes and for proper gamer it takes only ONE mistake to remember it forever. It's like a baby, you tell it not to touch the cooker, because it burns, yet it touches it, since it has no idea what "burns" means, but it won't happen again, after it finds out.
I disagree with you. Swirly ankhs are kinda clear ;p


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

10-15-2010
23 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valeyon View Post
I sifted through the thread and didn't see this point (may have missed it), but with Rupture, it was super frustrating if you were the one with low health and you got Ruptured. You basically had 2 choices:

A) Run and die from the DoT
B) Stand there and let them kill you anyways

Basically, either way you're screwed. So even if it wasn't Burden of Knowledge, it is Anti-fun > Fun. Either way it should be avoided.
oh right, reminds me, ill go add the false-choice anti-pattern

that's another serious flaw with rupture


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Nhat Nguyen

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

thanks for the insight :]


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Louise

Member

10-15-2010

i wasn't intending for my short list to be a definitive expose'. i was merely pointing out that the burden of knowledge exists for almost every character in the game currently to some degree.

some are more readily apparent than others and some are even more blatantly obscure than a "move and you take damage" ability.

case in point: vlad.

a de-agro, pool into the ground AoE dot effect that slows you?
an AoE delayed nuke that increases all damage taken while the effect is on you?

even his passive is a mindfsck. why is this character starting in my lane with 900hp and 35ap?

... the point is, while "burden of knowledge" is a good thing to keep in mind on design, you shouldn't allow it to completely overrule your decisions. you can balance this burden with other augmented features to help "educate" your playerbase and ease them into the game.