Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

First Riot Post
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Destabilizator

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Burden of knowledge
Zilean's ult? I certainly remember after I attempted to tower dive him and killed him, yet he popped up again, I tought "WTF?" And went over to webpage to see what he does. I can say you can compare it to rupture, knowledge-needed-before-going-for-it-wise.
We all learn by mistakes and for proper gamer it takes only ONE mistake to remember it forever. It's like a baby, you tell it not to touch the cooker, because it burns, yet it touches it, since it has no idea what "burns" means, but it won't happen again, after it finds out.


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Ponies Gonna Pwn

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Adjudicator

10-15-2010

Wait what? How is it in any way difficult to understand what rupture is doing? You run, you bleed out and take damage. You stand still, you don't. Noticed it the very first time I was hit with it.

You seriously underestimate your players' intelligence.


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Faro

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aratrok the Pony View Post
You seriously underestimate your players' intelligence.
I would have agreed with this before 250 games of solo que.


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Lazersharkzilla

Junior Member

10-15-2010

I sifted through the thread and didn't see this point (may have missed it), but with Rupture, it was super frustrating if you were the one with low health and you got Ruptured. You basically had 2 choices:

A) Run and die from the DoT
B) Stand there and let them kill you anyways

Basically, either way you're screwed. So even if it wasn't Burden of Knowledge, it is Anti-fun > Fun. Either way it should be avoided.


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Dragonglove

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Use Pattern Mis-matches Surrounding Gameplay
I won't go into too much detail on this, but the simple example is giving a melee DPS ability to a ranged DPS character -- the use pattern on that is to force move to melee, then use. This does not feel good, and should be avoided. I'm sure you are all thinking -- but WoW mages are ranged, and they have all these melee abilities! Well... Frost Nova is an escape, and the various AEs are fit around a _comprehensive_ different mage playstyle that no longer is truly 'ranged' and is mechanically supported across the board by Blizzard -- so the rules don't apply there ;p

Anti-Combo
This one is bad. This is essentially when one ability you have diminishes the effectiveness of another in a frustrating manner. Some examples:
- Giving a character a 'break-on-damage' CC with a DOT (yes, warlocks have this, but they tuned it to make it not anti-combo much at all)
- With Warriors in WoW -- they need to get rage by taking damage so that they can use abilities and gain threat -- but parry and dodge, which are key to staying alive, make them lose out on critical early fight rage. So, by gearing as a better tank, you become a worse tank in another dimension -- anti combo!
- With old warrior talent trees in WoW, revenge would give you a stun -- but stunned enemies cannot hit you and cause rage gain... So this talent actually reduced your tanking capability a lot in some sense! Anti-combo!
And this is why it was a bad idea for me to put a pushback ability on a melee champion.

So how's the search for more designers coming along?


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HyperWeaponRance

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Are these reason's why we got things like the swirly aura on Guardian Angel, so it was easier for player's to reconise without too much effort. If so, any chance of getting to see the stats on items like Rod of Age's, Warmog's and Bloodthirster, or seeing exactly how much HP you have farmed up with Sion's Enrage sometime soon?


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Lord GiantR

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aratrok the Pony View Post
Wait what? How is it in any way difficult to understand what rupture is doing? You run, you bleed out and take damage. You stand still, you don't. Noticed it the very first time I was hit with it.

You seriously underestimate your players' intelligence.

We R smart. But I've seen pretty strange things in LoL after release.


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Doctor Awesome

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Posts like these make me happy. You sum up these concepts so clearly it's a wonder there seem to be so many game companies out there that haven't heard of them.

I particularly find the "burden of knowledge" bit to be an interesting challenge, and one that Riot has dealt with admirably. I think you guys have done a pretty remarkable job of having abilities that have all sorts of clever interactions that don't require terribly detailed knowledge on the victim's part to at least have a clue as to what's going on--the general, net outcome of the interactions is more than clear enough without having to know the nitty-gritty details.

You don't have to know exactly how complicated Twisted Fate is to know that he stuns you a lot, and whenever that flaming eye appears above your head, he always seems to appear right next to you when you really, really don't want to see him. You don't have to know that Rocket Jump refreshes on kill or assist, just that Tristana is really dangerous and always seems to clean up fights really well. It makes for a lot of fun for the person using the clever ability, without inflicting too much pain on the target just because they don't know what's going on. When it works best, it makes the victim understand the end result of what happened, then ask "I wonder why exactly that happened?" He understands enough to play the game he's in now, but he'll want to go read that champion and be better prepared for next time.

(By the way, have you had a chance to review *that email* I sent you recently? I'm sure you've been incredibly busy with the patch coming up next week, but I'm about to pop with anticipation for hearing your response...)


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voorn

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Interesting thread, thanks.


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Baromen Ironsack

Senior Member

10-15-2010

thanks for posting this. It is always interesting to learn a little more about what goes into game design from a conceptual perspective.