Riot, all this mess about incoming Sona nerfs is a proof of reverse power creep.

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Akava

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Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
The only one of those roles that has any viability problem is burst (whether assassin or AP). It's something we need to fix, but it might not be the way you expect.
I'm very curious what you mean by that. Akali falls into this perfectly. She also falls into the same situation you talked about with Ziggs. She can do very well against many opponents, some just take a lot of planning and ninja like cunning. The problem though, as laning ends and groups stick together, she simply can't kill fast enough in the current League.

I'm starting to think that this isn't specifically an Akali problem as it's more player knowledge combined with current values of health have pushed Akali out of the team fighting game.


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Ars Memoriae

Senior Member

02-15-2013

A lot of people take for granted how much Sona brings to the table without you actually being aware of it. early game, sona has a very strong poke with her Q which can chip away at the enemy evetually either forcing them to use mana to heal and use bottles, or to go back to base allowing more free farm for your adc, as well giving her free gold from pickpocket mastery. going in late game, sona can keep the team mobile and healthy in very long engagements keeping you constantly at the enemy doorstep with her low cost and cooldown heal that does a decent amount of healing, but not only that grants a pretty big armor and magic resist bonus, 20+ armor and resist, for three seconds, which is a long time in the middle of a late game fight. There is also the fact that she can also use her E to get team in and out of situations with its big move speed buff. her ult that can stop enemies that are channeling, fleeing or over extending.

By far the most overlooked and unappreciated thing sona has to offer is her free stats through auras that most people don't realize the value it has for no cost. for example, her heal also turns on a aura that increases nearby allied champion's armor and magic resist by 20, which is like having a free cloth armor and a slightly weaker null-magic mantle, that is around 600 gold worth of stats you didn't even have to pay for that lasts as long as the aura is up, and as many allies that are in her presence at the time. if you combined it all together with everyone all benefiting the aura, it is nearly 3k worth of stats among 5 players that no one had to pay for, and that's is not even adding the three second +20 armor and magic resist that sona and a ally with low health gain, which almost doubles the value briefly, this also applies to her damage aura.

We have not even covered how much power cord helps in many scenarios, which can help chase down with a slow by 40% for 2 sec or giving a huge debuff to the enemy dps. considering most late game teamfights are normally quick to start and quick to end, every second is critical, and when a sona fires her Diminuendo on the enemy adc, that is 4 seconds you are doing 1/5 less damage than you normally would, which can cause you to lose a teamfight.

In the end people tend to forget how much utility and support sona brings with little or no effort, this is the main reason she gets nerfed, even with all of her nerfs, she still is the most solid support around and i don't see that changing as much. Even with all of her nerfs in the past, she is still a very great pick for support, but I'm sure riot would like to see more diverse picks in the game.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

02-15-2013
15 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaarrjj View Post
You've made me happy as hell. Love my ziggs, it's nice to see you guys have an eye on him. Thank you. What do you mean by Distinct niche though? I thought he was an AOE mage. Isn't that a dintinct niche, or is it not good enough? Can you comment on what you mean by Distinct niche?
For example, Short Fuse dealing more damage to turrets.

A few months back I heard that Ziggs' best purpose was probably "Siege mage." Every one of his abiliities is a poke. He zones the enemy team so they can't engage. He brings down turrets. If your team is looking for an early victory, push all lanes, and start a 5 man push early, he's the guy you bring to make sure they can't engage on you while you bring down turrets.

Now that said, this is only one random sentence months back. Don't know if that's the actual direction.

Compare to Brand who just deals all the damages or Nidalee who makes pushing work by harassing and healing.


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Master Zadaa

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Junior Member

02-15-2013

Phreak is alive, you guys saw it here first


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Lasac

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02-15-2013

It would be interesting if Sachel could scatter the mines.


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Vandevic

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02-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Zadaa View Post
Phreak is alive, you guys saw it here first
Confirmed on Saint's stream.


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Ipitydafool

Senior Member

02-15-2013

I'm curious what Riot's plan for the melee AD Carries is. Specifically Yi, Fiora, Trynd, and a few others. Yi saw a brief light when AP Yi was deemed too powerful but Fiora has wallowed in mediocrity for almost a year and I don't remember the last time I saw a Trynd. How do you plan to remove power for beefier brusiers and fighters but allow the Melee Carries the damage to be viable without dying in the course of a single CC?

Also, I've never gotten an answer but what happened to the 'Renekton treatment' to the bruisers. Long ago during Renekton's release and high power level he was brought to include some lower bases and higher scaling. Brusiers would chose to disrupt with CCs and average damage do damage by building it. Then we get releases like Darius that **** all over that idea. Is there any plan to make the bruisers build damage to do more damage and lower their bases like you did for Renekton or was that a failed experiment?


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Noboty

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotBuzzJack View Post
So what are you guys going to do for attack speed reliant fighters like Shyvana and Irelia? Primarily those two as they don't have any built in attack speed steroids like Nocturne and Skarner.
Are you going to buff their base attack speed, give them attack speed steroids, or tweak attack speed itemization?
I desire an red's response for this.


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Swampmajikk

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Whoa whoa whoa...how the hell can anyone really say with a straight face that sona is op?
blitzcrank and taric are ok but sona with her aoe stun skillshot ULTIMATE is too strong!?

I've lost all faith in this game..

Edit: 1 more thing. Is it really valid or accurate to make balance decisions based on the choices made by pros in tournaments who practice with these characters day in and day out in order to make that sort of impression on the game? They're not the average players and don't play like everyone else. Its pretty sad that the community tries to immitate and emulate tournament players on the fundamental level rather than the level that they should be which is figuring things out on your own along with actually being a cooperative team player.
And also if these champs are working well wouldn't it make more sense to buff the less played champs up to actually contend with them? It really just ends up creating more problems nerfing champs against others because it weakens them to everyone.
I'm not gonna say balance is easy at all but I still feel like the way it is approached is off center and should be reconsidered.

Also u can't tell me the current state of ahri is not a perfect example of reverse power creep. She's basically bottom tier mage when she used to be top. That's not balance its favoritism.

Ok im done. My word probably doesn't mean **** and I probably contradicted myself but I said my piece.


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GigglesO

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02-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
but it's also not OK to have only Sona/Janna/Soraka used
All I see being used is Taric, Taric, Taric, Taric....

There is a reason power is tied to popularity... If you made it so that karma could instantly kill one person every game every time she would be the most popular champ...