Anyone else a bit dissapointed with Quinn's design?

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chumbler

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly5 View Post
From what I can remember...both Iron Solari Leona...and Quinn...have the same "leaf-shaped" armor things. It's just too much of a resemblance imo. They can look like the same style...but I mean it just looks like the same champion from a distance if you ask me. (just looked them both up...i cannot discern their face/helmets from each other)

Riven and Garen both have swords...yes. No problem with that.
But what if Garen had a BROKEN sword? And that would be his "thing."
I would have a problem with that. See what I mean?
Leona is the armor lady. If Quinn also has all this focus on being an armored lady...then...it makes Leona less special.
Saying that Leona and Quinn are too similar because they both wear armor (despite how different their armor is, and that Leona honestly isn't wearing armor in her base skin anyway) is as stupid as saying Riven and Garen are too similar because they both have swords, broken or not.

Oh my god, Poppy has armor and is from Demacia. Quinn is clearly way too similar to Poppy and thus uncreative and making Poppy less special! We need more half naked, busty supermodels that constantly spout sexual innuendo right away! Those are the only truly creative female champions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashxu View Post
But didn't someone at Riot say that they emphasized various "features" of female champions to make them easier to identify as a female in-game? I recall something among those lines.
They did, then they went back on it when they realized that's really stupid.


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LilShrimpz

Junior Member

02-13-2013

WELL IM GLAD YOU MADE HER A GIRL cause my name is kwinne (quinn) and this champ is basically me in champ form <3 love it. ur the man stylus

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Some quick context:

Quinn used to be a guy, then I turned her into a woman. That woman is a ranger, she's prepared for a fight, she's wearing thicker armor but not plate aside from key places where she would have to interact with an enemy's face.

Quinn was not designed to be in a skin-tight outfit. That was tried, and look, again, like a woman with a cape, in a skin tight outfit, which had been worked to death by Zyra, Syndra, Elise, and Diana. She does not care about looking feminine, she cares about utility. Baggy fatigues which have hardened pockets, knee pads to dig into the ground to take a shot, no exposed flesh to take a graze.

A functional Demacian helmet which adds sleekness is a design choice. It's Valkyrie, it's a motif, and it's a visual landmark. She has a gauntlet reminiscent of a falconer's glove which is armored because Valor has armor on his talons, to again, interact with an enemy's face. He can do damage to even thick leather.

Her hood is collapsed, she has essentially a themed parka with a bird motif, Functional but themed.

She has what equates to kevlar, thickened material able to resist a blade. She has Demacian signifiers all over her, and bird motifs worked in. She is functional but fantasy.

Regarding femininity, I was called out long ago when Sejuani released for making the reasoning that Sejuani might wear less clothing so that "you can tell she's female." That is an invalid argument and a sad excuse to design a particular way. A ranger, an elite, doesn't care whether you can tell they are a female or a male. They are interested in getting the job done, and having the gear to do so. We gave Quinn that gear and did not embrace the traditional route of the tight-clothed standard fantasy ranger. She's a new ranger for a new time. She hits the Demacian notes but plays off of them. That is the rational behind similar armor themes to Garen and Jarvan. That's how we establish she's in the military proper, but not standard in uniform.

For reference, take a look ad Deunan Knute from Appleseed. She has no boob or breastplates. She is completely covered with a half-helm. She has short hair. She is a bit more masculine, that's the goal. She is not a waif, but she is agile. She has small breasts, a tighter frame, but is fairly androgynous. That's what we wanted to portray, and I feel we hit that.

Honestly, I feel I owe no excuses. You know my history, you know my goals. I design the women in armor. I do not design the over-sexualized, the seductress, or the siren. Different artists gravitate towards different styles and themes. When this champion came along, I opted to work on it because I felt I could bring a different take. Initially, she did start out as a traditional fantasy ranger, and actually was melee at the time. However, that was not the route we wanted to take. That was standard, it was conventional, and it was boring. I drove away from it and made something rugged in the new direction we're trying to take our style. Fantasy, but not traditional fantasy.

This is my take. If you don't like it that's perfectly fine. I, like all artists, design with particular design and form language as my signature. You might have noticed Zyra, Syndra and Elise were designed by the same artist. Sexy bodies, integrated clothing/biology, dark females. Same with artist for Nautilus, Ziggs and Lulu. Friendly shapes, opposing colors, offbeat characters. Just like game designers have similar flavor to their champions across the board artists have similar common expressions.

If you want a traditional archer, with a traditional fantasy get-up, with a traditional build, and a traditional design where female form expression trumps practically fighting the fight, I am not your guy, and I'm glad to admit that. That's my strength, that why I work on what I work on.

I do not abide by the established or the expected, neither does Riot on the whole. It is not our job to abide, it's our job to challenge the convention and question traditional execution.

Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for understanding where we're coming from. This isn't just me. This is part of something larger. Pendulums will swing, you'll get your stripped down heroes. Quinn is not one of them and we're proud of that.


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Arctanus

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Senior Member

02-13-2013

I'm glad you designed her this way. I dabble in a lot of free to play games and an overwhelmingly consistent theme is that female characters wear armor that only protects their **** and ******s. How is that useful? You've got more organs that need to not be slashed at. Exposed skin is a liability. That's why I like Monster Hunter so much, the female armor in that is decidedly feminine, but not impractical. It's clearly designed to actually protect the user, and Quinn reminds me of that.


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Chilly5

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
Saying that Leona and Quinn are too similar because they both wear armor (despite how different their armor is, and that Leona honestly isn't wearing armor in her base skin anyway) is as stupid as saying Riven and Garen are too similar because they both have swords, broken or not.

Oh my god, Poppy has armor and is from Demacia. Quinn is clearly way too similar to Poppy and thus uncreative and making Poppy less special! We need more half naked, busty supermodels that constantly spout sexual innuendo right away!



They did, then they went back on it when they realized that's really stupid.
Here are two images:
Iron Solari Leona - http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws....ron_solari.jpg
Quinn's Concept - http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...0&d=1360785378

LOOK at those two images and TELL ME...
That Quinn is not a recolor of Iron Solari Leona (in Demacian blue).
TELL ME.
TELL ME.

I will not compare her to poppy. Because Poppy's armor is rounder. It's "cuter." And poppy is about a fourth in size.

One has sword/shield, the other has bird/crossbow...
but I mean...COME ON...

The jagged edges...the proud face....the exposed face...the talon-cape leaf-shaped cape thing...
I MEAN COME ON...IRON SOLARI LEONA EVEN HAS A BIG "FALCON" MOTIF GOING FOR IT...(the shield, the background, etc).


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LilShrimpz

Junior Member

02-13-2013

cant wait to play myself when she comes out!!!! stop ur complaining bout her, shes brilliant.!!!


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Frequently Fizz

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Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
If you want a traditional archer, with a traditional fantasy get-up, with a traditional build, and a traditional design where female form expression trumps practically fighting the fight, I am not your guy, and I'm glad to admit that. That's my strength, that why I work on what I work on.

I do not abide by the established or the expected, neither does Riot on the whole. It is not our job to abide, it's our job to challenge the convention and question traditional execution.

Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for understanding where we're coming from. This isn't just me. This is part of something larger. Pendulums will swing, you'll get your stripped down heroes. Quinn is not one of them and we're proud of that.
Challenge convention and make a black champion.


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ashxu

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Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
They did, then they went back on it when they realized that's really stupid.
I'm not sure about this one. Nami and Elise are pretty recent and they have features that are obviously aimed to be fan service.


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Tenant

Friend of Urf

02-13-2013

I love her face, armor, and not to forget, Val as well. She's super heroic looking.

My only concern is that her design does look a bit cluttered, but I'll reserve any sort of final judgement until I see her in-game, where it counts (that way we can take in her whole character; her personality, her movement/animations, her gameplay, and how it all meshes with her design as a final product).


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abzilla

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Senior Member

02-13-2013

I don't think for me the similarities are a thing. Heck to me Quinn looks like Talon with a mini Anivia. The biggest deal for me is she looks boooooooooooooring. Yes I ge that she's dressed for the job, but I wish there was more to it than that. I don't mean a luscious body or scandalous clothes; I mean a cool looking champ.

You guys created a normal looking champion to fight in the league of legends, and to be equally treated and looked at, great, you did it! But for me, the visuals and champion role are.. boring.

Who knows, maybe if Quinn wasn't human or was a one armed ranger, than that woulda be cool, unique, and new!

Your style is great Mr. Artist, and I love the fact you went the more humble/true look to a ranger champ, but this is a fantasy game with fantasy champions battling epic battles with cool visuals for us to enjoy, so for now, I shall pass on this humble ranger and wait for a new unique champion to come.


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chumbler

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashxu View Post
I'm not sure about this one. Nami and Elise are pretty recent and they have features that are obviously aimed to be fan service.
I meant more that they went back on thinking it was required to show the typical female physical attributes, not that they were never going to do it again.