Demacia Needs Heroes

First Riot Post
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Quantum Vishnu

Senior Member

02-13-2013

I am Really Really Really hoping that Quinn's model looks as close as possible to the art they just put out, then I will 100% buy this champion on release.


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SPPBOverlord

Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Cross-post from another thread...

Some quick context:

Quinn used to be a guy, then I turned her into a woman. That woman is a ranger, she's prepared for a fight, she's wearing thicker armor but not plate aside from key places where she would have to interact with an enemy's face.

Quinn was not designed to be in a skin-tight outfit. That was tried, and look, again, like a woman with a cape, in a skin tight outfit, which had been worked to death by Zyra, Syndra, Elise, and Diana. She does not care about looking feminine, she cares about utility. Baggy fatigues which have hardened pockets, knee pads to dig into the ground to take a shot, no exposed flesh to take a graze.

A functional Demacian helmet which adds sleekness is a design choice. It's Valkyrie, it's a motif, and it's a visual landmark. She has a gauntlet reminiscent of a falconer's glove which is armored because Valor has armor on his talons, to again, interact with an enemy's face. He can do damage to even thick leather.

Her hood is collapsed, she has essentially a themed parka with a bird motif, Functional but themed.

She has what equates to kevlar, thickened material able to resist a blade. She has Demacian signifiers all over her, and bird motifs worked in. She is functional but fantasy.

Regarding femininity, I was called out long ago when Sejuani released for making the reasoning that Sejuani might wear less clothing so that "you can tell she's female." That is an invalid argument and a sad excuse to design a particular way. A ranger, an elite, doesn't care whether you can tell they are a female or a male. They are interested in getting the job done, and having the gear to do so. We gave Quinn that gear and did not embrace the traditional route of the tight-clothed standard fantasy ranger. She's a new ranger for a new time. She hits the Demacian notes but plays off of them. That is the rational behind similar armor themes to Garen and Jarvan. That's how we establish she's in the military proper, but not standard in uniform.

For reference, take a look ad Deunan Knute from Appleseed. She has no boob or breastplates. She is completely covered with a half-helm. She has short hair. She is a bit more masculine, that's the goal. She is not a waif, but she is agile. She has small breasts, a tighter frame, but is fairly androgynous. That's what we wanted to portray, and I feel we hit that.

Honestly, I feel I owe no excuses. You know my history, you know my goals. I design the women in armor. I do not design the over-sexualized, the seductress, or the siren. Different artists gravitate towards different styles and themes. When this champion came along, I opted to work on it because I felt I could bring a different take. Initially, she did start out as a traditional fantasy ranger, and actually was melee at the time. However, that was not the route we wanted to take. That was standard, it was conventional, and it was boring. I drove away from it and made something rugged in the new direction we're trying to take our style. Fantasy, but not traditional fantasy.

This is my take. If you don't like it that's perfectly fine. I, like all artists, design with particular design and form language as my signature. You might have noticed Zyra, Syndra and Elise were designed by the same artist. Sexy bodies, integrated clothing/biology, dark females. Same with artist for Nautilus, Ziggs and Lulu. Friendly shapes, opposing colors, offbeat characters. Just like game designers have similar flavor to their champions across the board artists have similar common expressions.

If you want a traditional archer, with a traditional fantasy get-up, with a traditional build, and a traditional design where female form expression trumps practically fighting the fight, I am not your guy, and I'm glad to admit that. That's my strength, that why I work on what I work on.

I do not abide by the established or the expected, neither does Riot on the whole. It is not our job to abide, it's our job to challenge the convention and question traditional execution.

Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for understanding where we're coming from. This isn't just me. This is part of something larger. Pendulums will swing, you'll get your stripped down heroes. Quinn is not one of them and we're proud of that.
What will her playstyle be, what will her role be, what does she build??


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Krimson62

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post


[B] A functional Demacian helmet which adds sleekness is a design choice. It's Valkyrie, it's a motif, and it's a visual landmark.

Her hood is collapsed, she has essentially a themed parka with a bird motif, Functional but themed. [B]

That long a post... and these two things stand out...

how is a hood functional with a sharp edged helmet?!?!?!?!?!


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Darklarik

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Id like to see her with her hood on


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IWingsofShadowsI

Member

02-13-2013

Remove the helm and she will be perfect


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Great Zekelthan

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Member

02-13-2013

Ironstylus is my fav artist and designer here at riot


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swan2swan

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Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Cross-post from another thread...

Some quick context:

Quinn used to be a guy, then I turned her into a woman. That woman is a ranger, she's prepared for a fight, she's wearing thicker armor but not plate aside from key places where she would have to interact with an enemy's face.

Quinn was not designed to be in a skin-tight outfit. That was tried, and look, again, like a woman with a cape, in a skin tight outfit, which had been worked to death by Zyra, Syndra, Elise, and Diana. She does not care about looking feminine, she cares about utility. Baggy fatigues which have hardened pockets, knee pads to dig into the ground to take a shot, no exposed flesh to take a graze.

A functional Demacian helmet which adds sleekness is a design choice. It's Valkyrie, it's a motif, and it's a visual landmark. She has a gauntlet reminiscent of a falconer's glove which is armored because Valor has armor on his talons, to again, interact with an enemy's face. He can do damage to even thick leather.

Her hood is collapsed, she has essentially a themed parka with a bird motif, Functional but themed.

She has what equates to kevlar, thickened material able to resist a blade. She has Demacian signifiers all over her, and bird motifs worked in. She is functional but fantasy.

Regarding femininity, I was called out long ago when Sejuani released for making the reasoning that Sejuani might wear less clothing so that "you can tell she's female." That is an invalid argument and a sad excuse to design a particular way. A ranger, an elite, doesn't care whether you can tell they are a female or a male. They are interested in getting the job done, and having the gear to do so. We gave Quinn that gear and did not embrace the traditional route of the tight-clothed standard fantasy ranger. She's a new ranger for a new time. She hits the Demacian notes but plays off of them. That is the rational behind similar armor themes to Garen and Jarvan. That's how we establish she's in the military proper, but not standard in uniform.

For reference, take a look ad Deunan Knute from Appleseed. She has no boob or breastplates. She is completely covered with a half-helm. She has short hair. She is a bit more masculine, that's the goal. She is not a waif, but she is agile. She has small breasts, a tighter frame, but is fairly androgynous. That's what we wanted to portray, and I feel we hit that.

Honestly, I feel I owe no excuses. You know my history, you know my goals. I design the women in armor. I do not design the over-sexualized, the seductress, or the siren. Different artists gravitate towards different styles and themes. When this champion came along, I opted to work on it because I felt I could bring a different take. Initially, she did start out as a traditional fantasy ranger, and actually was melee at the time. However, that was not the route we wanted to take. That was standard, it was conventional, and it was boring. I drove away from it and made something rugged in the new direction we're trying to take our style. Fantasy, but not traditional fantasy.

This is my take. If you don't like it that's perfectly fine. I, like all artists, design with particular design and form language as my signature. You might have noticed Zyra, Syndra and Elise were designed by the same artist. Sexy bodies, integrated clothing/biology, dark females. Same with artist for Nautilus, Ziggs and Lulu. Friendly shapes, opposing colors, offbeat characters. Just like game designers have similar flavor to their champions across the board artists have similar common expressions.

If you want a traditional archer, with a traditional fantasy get-up, with a traditional build, and a traditional design where female form expression trumps practically fighting the fight, I am not your guy, and I'm glad to admit that. That's my strength, that why I work on what I work on.

I do not abide by the established or the expected, neither does Riot on the whole. It is not our job to abide, it's our job to challenge the convention and question traditional execution.

Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for understanding where we're coming from. This isn't just me. This is part of something larger. Pendulums will swing, you'll get your stripped down heroes. Quinn is not one of them and we're proud of that.
*happy gurgling noises*


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Torvin Augeri

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Some constructive feedback for the Parrot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
-snip-
I find all of the above to be valid. That said, I feel that there is some rather abrupt dissonance here between the character/lore as outlined here by the journal pages and the visual design of this concept.

Particularly, there’s this bit here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
She does not care about looking feminine, she cares about utility. Baggy fatigues which have hardened pockets, knee pads to dig into the ground to take a shot, no exposed flesh to take a graze.
Thing is, I don’t see utility when I look at the only picture we currently have of her. I don’t see pockets, I don’t see a belt, I don’t see a bag. Maybe those are there on the final design, maybe not. As far as the concept goes, while I do see knee pads and a lack of exposed flesh, there remains the matter of said dissonance. If it wasn’t for the bolt pistol and Valor giving her away as a ranger and falconer, her get-up would make me think melee-ranged skirmisher.

Quinn’s concept also suffers from the same problem that Ashe, Tryndamere, and Sejuani suffer, which is to say there’s a disconnect between their appearance and their background. The Freljordians are supposedly from a cold, harsh tundra atop the mountains, and yet I take one look at them and go, “Why are they wearing such skimpy garments? Wouldn’t they be freezing?” Likewise with Quinn, except in her case it’s, “Why is she running around with greaves on? Isn’t that impractical?” I look at her armor in the concept and it comes off as metallic where I’d expect and hope to see leather or some variation on hide. Instead, all of the gold is stiff- and rigid-looking. Seriously, go on a days-long hike and then come back and tell me you’d like to go through that again while weighed down like that. For some commoner who has to track down, outpace, and catch an assassin – assassins are slippery little gits – she doesn’t look the part. Rather, she looks like she’s about to attend some Demacian function. And I know you’re going to hate hearing this, but she has heels. Not stilettos, thankfully, but wedges. I was hoping for boots. You know, practical for traipsing through the woods.

Heavy armor is more suited to archers than to rangers. The former spends much of his or her time in fortified positions, such as atop castle walls; the latter is more concerned with mobility, pathfinding, tracking, roughing it. Simply put, Quinn looks more like a Demacian superhero than a ranger - which would be fine, if we hadn’t been treated to the journal pages. I almost wish I’d only had one or the other now, rather than both – just the pages, or just the picture. As it stands, I find it hard to believe that she could catch anyone off guard dressed like that, and that’s what it comes down to, same as Sejuani: suspension of disbelief gets thrown out the window because it’s a little too over-the-top.

It’s a damned shame, too, because I LIKE the design. Reminds me of Lenneth from Valkyrie Profile.


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Tesla Effect

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Question Hound View Post
THIS JUST IN!!! NEW PLOT TWIST!!!

The mysterious thief/criminal haunting Piltover's streets is known only by his calling card C. Quinn's brother's name was Caleb. Here's where it gets good.
  • Caleb isn't really dead. We got some ol' Star Wars nonsense going on here, where "dead" is code for "forsaken ideals and slipped into a life of transgression."
  • The reason that the assassin doesn't match Talon's profile is because the assassin is Caleb
  • The alarm was raised and a sloppy job was done because Caleb wanted Quinn to be put onto his trail. "Target headed towards Golden Crossing (too obvious)" is indicative that Quinn knows her brother is alive.
  • "Prince Jarvan needs to know." She has to tell him the true story of her brother.
  • Her knowledge of the paths and trails shows that the only other person who could know these trails would be her brother, with whom she explored often.
  • She now has to deal with a serious decision -- does she kill her brother, and "avenge" the Caleb of the past who believed in Justice and Honour? Or does she let him escape and surrender herself to shoulder the responsibility for his crimes?

TL;DR -- The assassin is Caleb, Quinn's still living brother, and she has to decide whether to bring him to justice or not. This conflict with Justice is what sets her apart from other Demacians.
Oh, this would be even better


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Pandermania

Member

02-13-2013

Wow, major respect for you Ironstylus. So far Diana is the only champion i have ever bought at release, at least till you guys release Quinn. You really know how to design powerful, sexy but classy women.

but that makes me wonder, what would male champion designed by you look like? I realize this might be asking you to walk into a trap, but i am really curious as to what Quinn may have looked like as a male?