Riot powercreeped the hell out of their own game

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Griftrix

Senior Animation Engineer

02-11-2013
1 of 16 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconPawwwwnch View Post
Edit: If you wanna make another comparison, just look at Lee Sin's kit and compare it to warwick's, who originally was meant to be a melee bruiser/tank. Lee Sin has a total of 4.8 bonus ad ratios. He has 2 dashes, an execute, an aoe slow and AS slow, a hard knockback cc with a chance to knock up the entire enemy team, free lifesteal, free spellvamp, and (before) free armor...
Hello.

There is this thought exercise that a designer taught me (I forget who) to help figure out if a kit was balanceable.

If a champion's abilities did 0 damage, would the champion be playable? If the answer is no, then that means there exists some numbers where the champion (and abilities) is balanced. To me, this means that the kit isn't innately over powered, or a sign of power creep. If a kit IS balanceable, then there is nothing OP about the kit itself. If the champion is too strong, then it has to do with the balance numbers and tweaking.


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CapnChoGath

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Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Hello.

There is this thought exercise that a designer taught me (I forget who) to help figure out if a kit was balanceable.

If a champion's abilities did 0 damage, would the champion be playable? If the answer is no, then that means there exists some numbers where the champion (and abilities) is balanced. To me, this means that the kit isn't innately over powered, or a sign of power creep. If a kit IS balanceable, then there is nothing OP about the kit itself. If the champion is too strong, then it has to do with the balance numbers and tweaking.
You forgot to bring up the opposite side, as the other riot did. "if the champion did 1000 dmg, would he be op?"


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Dfenestrator

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Hello.

There is this thought exercise that a designer taught me (I forget who) to help figure out if a kit was balanceable.

If a champion's abilities did 0 damage, would the champion be playable? If the answer is no, then that means there exists some numbers where the champion (and abilities) is balanced. To me, this means that the kit isn't innately over powered, or a sign of power creep. If a kit IS balanceable, then there is nothing OP about the kit itself. If the champion is too strong, then it has to do with the balance numbers and tweaking.
O_o

I could only imagine how terrible it would feel to play a non adc champ who's abilities all do 0 dmg. (This from a support main)


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The Wampa Master

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by griftrix View Post
hello.

There is this thought exercise that a designer taught me (i forget who) to help figure out if a kit was balanceable.

If a champion's abilities did 0 damage, would the champion be playable? If the answer is no, then that means there exists some numbers where the champion (and abilities) is balanced. to me, this means that the kit isn't innately over powered, or a sign of power creep. If a kit is balanceable, then there is nothing op about the kit itself. If the champion is too strong, then it has to do with the balance numbers and tweaking.
taric does no damage but is playable must be broken


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Larias

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Adjudicator

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Hello.

There is this thought exercise that a designer taught me (I forget who) to help figure out if a kit was balanceable.

If a champion's abilities did 0 damage, would the champion be playable? If the answer is no, then that means there exists some numbers where the champion (and abilities) is balanced. To me, this means that the kit isn't innately over powered, or a sign of power creep. If a kit IS balanceable, then there is nothing OP about the kit itself. If the champion is too strong, then it has to do with the balance numbers and tweaking.
But that doesn't solve the problem that warwick IS NOT playable. It's great that new champions can be balanced but champions like warwick are suffering due to their kits.

Lee Sin, for example, is infinitely more playable than Warwick if both kits do 0 damage.

It's about utility, Grift, not damage. That's the creep.


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Skippy917

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Hello.

There is this thought exercise that a designer taught me (I forget who) to help figure out if a kit was balanceable.

If a champion's abilities did 0 damage, would the champion be playable? If the answer is no, then that means there exists some numbers where the champion (and abilities) is balanced. To me, this means that the kit isn't innately over powered, or a sign of power creep. If a kit IS balanceable, then there is nothing OP about the kit itself. If the champion is too strong, then it has to do with the balance numbers and tweaking.
BS

OP is right


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Larias

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Adjudicator

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy917 View Post
BS

OP is right
It's not bull****.

He just doesn't understand the point OP is making.

He's talking about balancing new kits and power creep. Lee Sin and Vi are not OP. However, Warwick is UP, and no amount of increasing numbers in his kit will help that. Increasing his numbers will eventually just make him OP. There's no way to balance his current kit because it's binary. He just doesn't have the utility that champions like Vi and Lee Sin have.


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Micalas

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Remember when Yi was finally viable? Lol, better nerf it.


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tailsmph

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Hello.

There is this thought exercise that a designer taught me (I forget who) to help figure out if a kit was balanceable.

If a champion's abilities did 0 damage, would the champion be playable? If the answer is no, then that means there exists some numbers where the champion (and abilities) is balanced. To me, this means that the kit isn't innately over powered, or a sign of power creep. If a kit IS balanceable, then there is nothing OP about the kit itself. If the champion is too strong, then it has to do with the balance numbers and tweaking.
Oh, you wanted a designer to comment on Warwicks pathetic state of "balance"?
Sorry, it's just me, Griftrix


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Larias

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Adjudicator

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by tailsmph View Post
Oh, you wanted a designer to comment on Warwicks pathetic state of "balance"?
Sorry, it's just me, Griftrix
The forums aren't here for designers to come do Q&A. They're to provide feedback and conversation and Grift does nothing but encourage that.