Why do Game Developers think they know what the players want? What games failed you?

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Capt Carmine

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Senior Member

02-11-2013

Melee and Brawl are completely different games, They share the name but the mechanics are so different that I find it funny how often they get compared. I played alot of both games, and they run on very different mindsets and speeds.

Melee is all about combo's and brawl is all about mind games.

My issue with the way they released brawl more than anything. yes everyone hates tripping but it is an in built mechanic. My biggest problem with brawl is metaknight.

He split the community, whether you play him or not, whether he is allowed or not. For a while i felt like people wanted anyone but metaknight to win, or every player me included had metaknight as their secondary character just because he had no bad matchups.

I feel if Nintendo, just patched brawl once and brought metaknight down a couple of notches or straight up put him into G-tier. Brawl would have had a much better chance at building a more proper competitive scene.

And I feel Toon Link should be brought up if we are talking about being technical, in brawl


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Biracialmage

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashGizmo View Post
If there's specific stuff you guys want me to talk about in here, I'm happy to keep going, I just felt like I was working on that WoT for an hour and had totally lost my train of thought so I stopped .

Otherwise, I'm kicking my blog back off this monday so you can always follow me there to catch when I ramble about gaming stuff: http://mogwaismusings.com/

/shamelessplug
I checked out your blog and noticed that you said your journey started in Connecticut. Did you by any chance go to The Battlegrounds for Fight Nights on Fridays? Your name sounds familiar...


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Carl10

Junior Member

02-11-2013

I would say Epic and the upcoming Gears of War Judgement,

they took out the one thing that made Gears of war unique which is

when you take enough damage by bullets you fall down and start crawling and your teammates can

come save you, you wait and get back up, or the enemy can do some cool execution

After watching some videos it really is a 3rd person call of duty =/ R.I.P GoW


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Biracialmage

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl10 View Post
I would say Epic and the upcoming Gears of War Judgement,

they took out the one thing that made Gears of war unique which is

when you take enough damage by bullets you fall down and start crawling and your teammates can

come save you, you wait and get back up, or the enemy can do some cool execution

After watching some videos it really is a 3rd person call of duty =/ R.I.P GoW
I think they butchered the franchise with the 2nd game. They had a huge success on their hands with the GoW1 multiplayer. But apparently the meta wasn't what they wanted, so they threw in lots of changes to force the game to be played their way. =\


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Carl10

Junior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biracialmage View Post
I think they butchered the franchise with the 2nd game. They had a huge success on their hands with the GoW1 multiplayer. But apparently the meta wasn't what they wanted, so they threw in lots of changes to force the game to be played their way. =\

I know what you mean, they made GoW too easy, GoW1 was a hardcore game and the only problems it really had was all of the lag and graphics

When Epic added Retro Lancers and Sawed-off Shotguns, even the suckiest players can get kills


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Alice Twilight

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Senior Member

02-11-2013

I generally prefer to play Melee but there are times when I'd rather play Brawl, those times are when I'm with a group of friends, Brawl is better as a party game mostly because I stomp most of them at melee and also because I'm just not as competitive when I play Brawl. Then again, my favorite party game is Dokapon Kingdom because I'm a sadist.


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Wertilq

Senior Member

02-11-2013

I don't get it why Sivir got some flak earlier, she was the champ that got me into the game, of one single reason; her E.
I was a HUGE fan of TF2 and had like a few hundred hours of playing pyro, airblast was pretty much the sole reason I stuck with pyro that long. It's an offensive, defensive skill, you attack by defending yourself, and you f*** enemy over. It have so many different uses it's crazy, it's one of the best skills in any games I've ever played, just because of how insanely creative it lets you be.
What TF strongly lacked though, was that they didn't cater to their pro scene. In the end I ended up inbetween being competitive player and a pubber. I couldn't enjoy playing on pubs, I simply was slightly too good for it, and after I had a run as a competitive player I definitely had nothing to come back for. The game is a huge marketing experiment and they don't fix their bugs, they don't cater to the competitive scene. It ends up a team based game without team work, since team work doesn't appear in a standard pub game.

Sivir is a bit similar to pyro in that, with her E.
I started playing LoL, and to be frank I found the game immensely dull, it was boring, tedious and frustrating, but whole my class played it and I was new to the class so I had to 'get into the class' so I decided to learn the game for real. After reaching around level 15 I started to genuinely enjoy the game, and now I love the game, and have accounts on NA, EUW and EUNE. LoL is a weak game when it comes to introducing new players. Too much too learn, and you need quite a bit of knowledge to enjoy the game. I have never really enjoyed Dota, not even after getting into LoL. Dota is too frustrating, too hard counters, too many scattered mechanics that serves no purpose (secret shops...), that doesn't add to experience(denies), denies also make freezing lane super easy... The abilities doesn't scale, which makes late game a bit dull, the power curve for different champs is too strange, movement feels clumsy and slow and overall it's not as responsive as I'd expect for a 201X game.

Now back to Sivir I am fractioning my point to this to be wall of text.. Sivir's E is offensive defensive tool. By using it you engage on enemy engage, they expect to stun you, but instead you block it and engage on them. I think it was Hunter X Hunter that described that scenario the best, "a predator is at its weakest as it goes in for the kill". And the power of doing reversals on all those frustrating enemy stuns was one of the most satisfying things in the game for me as a newbie.

The other part about Sivir that makes me love her is her skillset and ability to become an exceptionally bursty ADC. I never see pros ever build her to utilize just how bursty she is, but with a sheen(or one of it's upgrades) and sword of the divine, her burst is toxic level bursty. I've more than once erased bruisers that didn't build full tank during the time of a taric stun, by just being a little bit ahead, during midgame.
I really don't get it why people don't appreciate her autoattack reset more, it's such a super strong tool for ADC, and combined with her Q, it's crazy bursty for a sustained damage dealer like an ADC. Sure burst isn't best thing in current meta with HP/randuins stacking, but to me it feels like she is underappreciated because so few have learnt her mechanics fully out.
To me it feels a bit like Smash Bros. One of my favorite techniques from Melee I never saw anyone else use was to use downsmash with Fox/Falco/Yoshi next to a ledge against a few recoveries with fairly low priority, like Fox/Falco SideB. If you did it right you sent them off to their death, right before they grabbed the edge, but the timing window you had for that was minimal. When I was in my prime age I could do that 7/10 times. (it got removed from brawl since they autograb and get invincible from fairly far off) I still didn't beat my friends overly often which was totally into competitive Melee, and could wavedash properly and was much better at L-cancel aerials. To me it feels same way with Sivir, it's like my own secret champion no one else uses. That move was my own move, and I have never heard of people doing that in comp, though my friends couldn't do it either...

Maybe I need to teach the community how to play Sivir, by making a big and nice guide for her on Solomid, I already was about to back when I started, but Chaox guide discouraged me, it was too complete with too much research into usage of spellshield, and he was top player I was just a scrub...

What is wrong with current Sivir? To me it seems people just doesn't appreciate her skills. Her skills are subtle not in your face cool, it's like Taric vs Darius. IMO Taric is OP, while Darius is not. Darius is extremely flashy though, frustrating to play against(especially at lower skilllevels), while Tarics power doesn't show off as much (stats shows very little and he have his auras both defensive and offensive)
What makes Sivir strong is 3 things, Aura, Shield and Autoattack reset, and with that a burst. She is also a bit towards fighting game/pyro airblast, since she is very mechanic/timing based, both her E and her W is based of timing to be able to use. W is easy to master but it's still another skill you need to play her properly.

To me it seems other champs are more worth of getting Flak than her. Sion is biggest offender in my eyes. His playstyle is extremely straightforward to the level of being dumb. He stuns and runs forward to you, either to burst shield or to smack you over and over. Learn how to kite and suddenly he is useless. His kit doesn't work with both AP and AD. With AP his ulti is almost useless, with AD his W is almost useless. It's a very silly situation IMO. A champ that doesn't synergize with itself and that is so extremely simple.

tl;dr; I rant about Sivir being awesome and alienating people a bit, and not being flashy enough. Then I tell part of my gaming history and also complain about how dull Sion is (which REALLY need a rework), and then I rant a bit about TF2 and Dota as well. And an ounce of smash there too, since it was being talked about earilier
Oh yea... I might've gone a bit crazy with underline, italic and bold, but it works as a TLDR that too, and adds a secondary post in my post :P


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Biracialmage

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl10 View Post
I know what you mean, they made GoW too easy, GoW1 was a hardcore game and the only problems it really had was all of the lag and graphics

When Epic added Retro Lancers and Sawed-off Shotguns, even the suckiest players can get kills
I think the sawed off is the Darius of that game. It's fun to get kills with, but feels horrible to die to. I wasn't really referring to retro lancers and sawed off though. I meant when they put the huge focus on lancer camping. If you move anywhere out of cover, you're going to get sprayed for days and slowed by like 80% since the hitbox for the lancer slow seemed to be the front 180 degrees. If that wasn't bad enough, the gnasher got castrated and several different grenades were introduced, forcing you into catch 22s if you were losing. Either stay and eat tons of damage from the poison or fire grenade or run out and move at 20% ms and go down to lancer fire.

The biggest thing is that in GoW 1, you could pick people off in skirmishes and mount a comeback from 4v1s which lead to amazing highs. You can still kind of do it in 2 and 3, but they made it much harder. I see where they were coming from, but I feel like they should have accepted that people played Gears like it was Gears and ran with it, and not forcing game play to be a hyper gory rainbow six.


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marcosmooth

Junior Member

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SmashGizmo

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QA Analyst

02-11-2013
89 of 91 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biracialmage View Post
I checked out your blog and noticed that you said your journey started in Connecticut. Did you by any chance go to The Battlegrounds for Fight Nights on Fridays? Your name sounds familiar...
I went to the Battlegrounds in Norwalk every once in awhile to draft @ FNM.