New Updates to the Tribunal

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Trumanator

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SqueezeMeNow View Post
Yes they do. Shame they don't. Punishing a select few and making a PR statement out of it for the community is a joke. Also, publicizing it is a mistake on so many levels it is remarkably inept of them to go that route.

Edit: As an additional note, I don't only call Riot on their fart stink when I am banned. I am pretty consistent.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, maybe you should try not confusing your pronouns.

What is a joke about showing players that even "pros" can be punished for being incapable of self control? What possible "mistake" could it be to show both aspiring pros and the rank and file player that good conduct is expected of all league players regardless of status? What possible downside is there?


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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02-08-2013
6 of 31 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broshious View Post
Italics are my added emphasis.

First off I'd like to say I love the Tribunal system and the idea of having the community involvement.

As far as the changes go I could not be happier for having games that will more likely show the reason for the player being reported. That will make our job so very much easier. I think one additional change could help with accuracy even more, and perhaps weed out false reports, and that is to either A. Not include reports where the player hasn't typed in the reason for the report, or B. Force players to type at least a certain number of characters if they are going to report. I feel as a player, that if someone is toxic enough for me to be reporting them that I should take the time to give the reason why I am doing so which should also make it easier for Tribunal judges to determine the accuracy of my report and the toxicity of the player.
We've considered forcing players to write a report comment in the past, but there are a few concerns:

1) If we make the limitation "any number of characters," then many players will simply scribble random nonsense just to file a report.

2) If we make the limitation too long, then many players might not report players they should because they don't really want to deal with writing a comment.

It's a tough balance between #1 and #2, but it's something that's not entirely off the table.

Quote:
Secondly, as has been said by many a red post, the people who end up in the Tribunal are reported and reported often. So, I have a very hard time understanding why there would be cases with only two games. I've seen it myself where each game has just one report(with almost always no additional information), and yet this player is supposedly so toxic that they need to be punished. Now as you've said that the Tribunal will be looking for the most recent and egregious offenses I can possibly see a case with just two games where there are maybe 3+ reporters per game, but I still feel as if this person is in the Tribunal there will (or at least in my mind should be) be AT LEAST 5 games in which the player has been reported so that we can always have the most information when making our decisions.
We can actually set the minimum number of games to whatever we want; however, adjusting the minimums directly impacts the amount of time it takes the Tribunal to aggregate the case file and send the player to the community review. Regardless, we have been experimenting a lot with minimums, and have learned that it's a variable we have to be careful with. Since we've had a random number of cases between 1-5 for over a year, if we immediately changed the minimum to 5 for every game we potentially have to deal with a voter bias because players might perceive cases with 5 games as worse because they are so used to seeing cases with 1-4 games as well.

We are going to experiment longer term with 2, and monitor the data and go from there.

Quote:
I've actually had another idea which I'm sure many other players have had as well, and that is based on the fact that it has been said that people who falsely report have their reports disregarded by the system. Now that is great, but what if you were to, besides each report put some sort of rating system, or perhaps that reporters previous accuracy in finding toxic players. That way when I look at a game with one report and the reporter's accuracy is rather low, I can go in being skeptical of the person actually being guilty.
This is an interesting idea, I'd have to think about it more and go through exercises of how this new information might influence player review of the cases.


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Fomorian27

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Senior Member

02-08-2013

"Previously, our Player Support team reviewed every Tribunal case before approving punishments and pardons."

So you guys were checking each and every tribunal case before approving punishes and pardons? Am I understanding this right? I was under the impression that it was only permaban cases that were reviewed by player support.


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lxpq15

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Will you guys fix the random jibberish we get in some Reporters comments?

IE;

""Swain" wow, that's just offensive. That is the infantiside version of having the name "beat all women". It's malicious. It's dark. It doesn't belong here."

I think it's from using ' and " marks. o.o'


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Daenios

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Senior Member

02-08-2013

As a person who is on his last chance before a perms an, can I put some perspective into the Tribunal?

Yes, I've now realized how bad I was and since I'm on my last chance I'm not letting that happen.

Here are some questions:

If your team checks each tribunal case, why do we even have the tribunal?
Why do we get banned for leaving if the reported leaver games still count towards your tribunal?
Also, I've had major power outage issues with my laptop, causing me to receive 2 bans. (One 3 day, one 1 week)
The one for 3 day, I was banned by leaver buster after I had left for around 7-10 minutes again, due to a laptop power outage. We ended up winning the game and my team had no problem with it. If you checked my history I had no leaves past 10 games.
If I go for 1 year without being banned will I still be permed?


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ihatebikeshorts

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Most of our systems tend to be lenient towards toxic players that are improving their behaviors. We really value and respect players who make a genuine attempt at reform. We have been brainstorming on whether showing 'behavioral progression' might be valuable in the Tribunal... but it's a tricky issue.
Thank you very much for your response, this was very enlightening.
For what my input is worth, I'm doing Tribunal cases atm and I just came across a case where a player said the "n" word and I punished without a second thought. It seems to me that even were I shown progression it wouldn't matter much in cases like this. There will always be cases where I don't care if the person has progressed much- if they're willing to go that far in a game then they need some sort of slap on the wrist.
You're right though, it's a tricky issue. Perhaps a chart that showed rate of reports over a certain number of games (as opposed to a timeline because the amount of games played per day varies from player to player and report volume per game would be more accurate) so those doing tribunal could gauge progression vs. how toxic the player is in game. If a player is just a bit of a downer in chat but they show signs of progression, then that would allow for some lenience.
But then there's the issue of "what if it's just dumb luck that they're being reported less" and that brings in the question of "does this make tribunal more accurate if it just causes more ambiguity and shades of gray".... Man this is a REALLY tough call..


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sirturkey1

Senior Member

02-08-2013

So does this mean we will stop seeing cases like one I reviewed where literally the only report available for me to view was a game where the reported party made one comment and that comment was "ggwp" and got sent to the tribunal for verbal abuse?


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Fomorian27

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Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post

We can actually set the minimum number of games to whatever we want; however, adjusting the minimums directly impacts the amount of time it takes the Tribunal to aggregate the case file and send the player to the community review. Regardless, we have been experimenting a lot with minimums, and have learned that it's a variable we have to be careful with. Since we've had a random number of cases between 1-5 for over a year, if we immediately changed the minimum to 5 for every game we potentially have to deal with a voter bias because players might perceive cases with 5 games as worse because they are so used to seeing cases with 1-4 games as well.
So currently the minimum number of cases is set to two, which makes sense because seeing just one case was a source of much misconceptions because people would say "it only takes one report to enter the tribunal1" However, ever since the update I've been seeing a lot more cases with 5 reports each game. Is this because the tribunal is taking longer to aggregate the cases, and these people are able to rack up 5 reports within that time period? I do see cases with only 2-4 games, but the majority appear to be 5 reports.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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02-08-2013
7 of 31 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fomorian27 View Post
"Previously, our Player Support team reviewed every Tribunal case before approving punishments and pardons."

So you guys were checking each and every tribunal case before approving punishes and pardons? Am I understanding this right? I was under the impression that it was only permaban cases that were reviewed by player support.
For a long, long time, we were reviewing every case. In many international territories, we are still reviewing every Tribunal case because we are still optimizing the accuracy in those regions.


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Bergtau

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Senior Member

02-08-2013

Any news on stuff like pregame and postgame chat, item build order, pings, deaths/kills in the chat log, etc.? Helping better establish the context of somebody's words/ending item build would help enormously on the cases that I would click Skip on.