Why do Game Developers think they know what the players want? What games failed you?

First Riot Post
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AIQ

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Riot failed Shyvana. And Udyr too, I understand the buff on all junglers, but you nerfed the **** out of good ones.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...1#post34431147


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MistahLlama

Member

02-08-2013

Look at the incident with Goth Annie. The people at Riot saw the massive cry of anger at the release of that skin, and a majority of the fans didn't like the idea. Instead of releasing it anyway, they took the release back, stating that the community had decided.

Riot is making a strategy game. More importantly, they are making a competitive strategy game with a large name in e-sports. I do not see Riot making the game easy for newcomers, because I'm constantly having to teach newcomers how to play this game, and even after months of leveling and playing to get to Level 30, they still don't have everything down.

Riot has shown on several occasions that they are a company that truly feels what the community wants, and I'm sure that when it really comes down to it, they won't do something without feeling that it is right.


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PwerOf Death

Junior Member

02-08-2013

riot has let me down in many many ways..

while tis good they fix certain things..

I hate how every new champ is soo dam op when released, only to be heavly nerfed and then buffed in following patches.

after release of new champs, huge buggs in the game, requiring many hours of down time.

the inability to actually test the game and elimiate the bugs

the fact they actually need to take the system offline for patching, rather than having two clusters to patch one and bring it online (using the loadbalancer to kick eveyrone off and direct them tot he patched servers.)and shut the other down. leaving it offline and unpatched till the new one shows no glaring bugs. that way onyl minutes of downtime rather than hours.

the fact that several champs still have huge glitches and bugs..
broken champs:

malphite
sion
lux (her ult is still broken and causes little damage when you face hit a champ with it.. instead you have to hit them on the side to do any damage.)

and no doubt there are others.

the fact they they attempt to add new champs every two weeks or monthly rather than simply fixing the bugs that exist.

Thanks

Easy


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DarkPercy

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Bugs that I love/loved

Tristana's E passive working with any form of damage she dealt.

It made AP Tristana so viable, so unique, so fun, so..... NOPE GOTTA REMOVE IT COMPLETELY.

Nasus' Q being able to crit


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HunkDorlian

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex7ter View Post
What i wanted in LoL

blah blah blah with your ass.
i might permaban you from this game


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Dex7ter

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunkDorlian View Post
i might permaban you from this game

can u stop flame.


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PsychicToaster

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skye Zero View Post
I've seen glitches/accidental coding error, that players enjoyed and could've sparked an idea for the developers to incorporate in the game, get "fixed". I've seen so many games turn to dust due to over-simplification of the game. Games that begin to turn "r&tard proof" hurts its older players and benefits newer players. The irony is making something extremely easy to understand doesn't quite bring out skill or understanding to the new users, they must go through the hours of experience like everyone else did. If anything the game becomes more easier and "over powered" from my experience and levels/achievements are gained much easier & faster.

All it took was Burning Crusade (Second Expansion of WoW) to wreck the game for a lot of users. WOTLK was personally what was the last straw for me. The 2 games that disappointed me the most were, Maplestory & Gunz. With so many new jobs and monsters, what used to take beta/2005 users a year+ of grinding to get to level 170-ish not even 200. Now in 2013 a player can achieve level 200 in a week with NX Cash(Karma Coins)

Gunz 2 removed the ability to K-style and many other trick moves. This was what made the game unique in its own way. No other game came close to the combat system gunz had. You defied gravity and did it with style(armor and skills) The best part was you did not have to conform to learning K-style.The community created their own game style without aid of the Developers. Everyone knew their play style and joined rooms that complimented it. (People didn't get angry because you didn't go with the meta(K-style) there were i believe 4 other styles then sprayers)

TL;DR I fear Riot will fall into this way of thinking "We know what you want" I see it a little bit, but hopefully its nothing. I'm curious to see if anyone has felt this way about a game you used to play. I'd like to read the comments.
So wait....by making the game newer user friendly, you're upset about it? You sound just Eric Clapton hating on Led Zeppelin because "they didn't have to try". I don't envy new players not having to spend hours on the game to learn it, I'm happy for them. They should be allowed to get into a game without having to dedicate their entire day to it.

As to fixing glitches, that's perfectly acceptable. Glitches aren't supposed to happen, that's why they're called "glitches". You just sound to me like one of those people that feels the need to be superior to other players because you spent hours learning a video game when they did not. Skill has absolutely nothing to do with how long you've been playing or the glitches you've learned to abuse. I learned to play Blitzcrank pretty damn well in only a few hours, because I'm pretty good at PC gaming(Been doing it since Quake). Skill is literally how good you are something. Exploiting a glitch doesn't make you good.

I'm glad Riot is fixing the game and making it more fun for people to get into. The whole DoTA "get good or get the hell out" attitude is just childish and obnoxious as hell.


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-08-2013
63 of 91 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredmonroe View Post
To be frank Morello, I'm surprised you would use the smash example as it is actually contrary to your points.

I don't know if you're in touch with the smash scene, but judging from your post, you aren't, so I'll elaborate.

There are currently more melee than brawl tournaments, and there is a much more alive competitive scene for melee.

Melee is actually going to be at Evo 2013, the biggest fighting game tournament that there is, because the melee community won a donation drive, raising 100k dollars for breast cancer research.

Melee players did "cry wolf" about how bad Brawl was, and how it ruined smash, but you know what? They were right. There was a wolf that killed the flock.

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=51

You can see tournament listings here, a lot are just casual and small tournaments, not even the bigger ones like Evo which typically only have melee or only a very small brawl following. By the way, Project M is a mod for brawl that makes it like melee, and may've surpassed brawl in popularity

Since this is such a damning counterexample to what you said, I'll expect you to just ignore this. Oh well.

So in conclusion, you're doubly wrong with your smash example.

1) Brawl is a less competitive game (and much less of a spectator game..) which did generally ruin the game (as evidenced by more melee tournaments with bigger turnouts) with what I speculate to be a less cohesive community and less players (as evidenced by melee blowing brawl out of the water in the donation drive and also extrapolating from tournament data, and youtube video views)

2) Releasing a melee clone would have been a safe move and a better move, as evidenced by a user-made (now they did a pretty fine job, but it's not professionally made by most standards) mod for brawl that has skyrocketed in popularity.

Edit: And to your point of melee players can still play melee even with brawl's existence, so no harm done?

Yes harm done. Melee is a game which could have used some balancing and a bigger cast. It could have also used a graphical update (the game is 2001 for the gamecube) and also needs a tech upgrade (all melee games that are competitive have to be played on CRT tv's due to the low res output lagging if it is upscaled to work on any modern TV. Maybe this is why PM is so popular?) Oh the melee scene was also drastically damaged by brawl as a lot of players left for brawl and it took a while for them to return to melee. Oh and melee's clout among the Fighting game community was also heavily damaged. EVO 2013 is the first evo that melee (and i believe smash in general though I could be wrong) will be at since EVO 2007 (the year brawl was released.)

SO yeah. Damage done.

Don't get me wrong, I like LoL a lot, but your point that "all sequels need to be different than their previous incarnations in order to exist," is just clearly wrong for this circumstance.
Well it depends on the goals - there is no harm if Melee competitive is alive and well. The biggest fighting game at EVO sounds like it's doing just fine. Is it a problem that Brawl is not a competitive game if melee is still kicking strong? I see that as the more successful version of SC/SC2.

Also, read the developer's responsibility to their fans - ensuring a depth level is retained through other mechanics. I think a good example is TF2 vs TFC - it's a totally different game, but TF2 has different depth. TFC players likely don't like that (and remember, I was a massive TFC player) but that doesn't matter if the new game has its own direction and successfully delivers.

Don't be scared to offer new depth and new skills, and make players learn all over again is my main point.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmonroe View Post
melee players did "cry wolf" about how bad brawl was, and how it ruined smash, but you know what? they were right. There was a wolf that killed the flock.
Attachment 610277


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-08-2013
64 of 91 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endertome View Post
Quoting since it was probably missed.
A couple things;

The feedback here, in this case, is not representative of most players. The people complaining are a very low number, but the people interested in the skin lines are massive. The problem is more a perception than a reality.

Secondly, we aren't good at prioritizing theme clusters - this is somewhat related to why Steel Legion Lux is a problem. We'd never done the work to prioritize the "right" skin for Lux first - a problem that needs to be solved quickly, imo

There's things to solve here, but it's less critical than presented in my mind. This is about filtering signal-to-noise.