Why do Game Developers think they know what the players want? What games failed you?

First Riot Post
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CoffeeBreath

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Every mmorpg since Everquest >.<


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Retired Noob

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Member

02-07-2013

The only thing that doesn't work is how little you feel like you can do about player behavior. There's always a sense of futility in your actions. When you report, you never feel like there's a real difference. In the Tribunal, there are always people who are let off for no good reason. Then, if all else fails, the trolls and permabanned just make new accounts and do it again.


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Kato75

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Senior Member

02-07-2013

How do you feel about the Warmogs Meta>
And also,I dont know if you can aswer me this,but,why go all like ''We are gonna increase item variaty'',then remove some items D:>
I miss FoN so much...
One thing that I would like on Aegis:Make a active that you can ''atract'' skills shots to you,but you lose the aura for like,50 secs,and each skill shot deacreses it by 5.Duration 3 seconds(Just some random numbers...would it be possible to do>And although I know it leaves not much counterplay right now,its just a random idea that I just had while reading your post about auras)

Also,Have you ever played Cabal Online>
I think it would be nice to see your point there,since everyone(with the right amout of power) can solo,but everyone has some differences that makes the classes variable.Also,NO DEDICATED HEALING.Its kinda of a casual game(you can hit lv 100 in about a month,2 weeks if you have nothing to do),So maybe sometime you could try it out>
I think it would be nice to experience it


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Squippit

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Runes of Magic =/ The game has so much going for it, but the programming is horrendous and it has memory leaks >< Also, the sales department sucks, they suck at player support, and you'll probably have to redownload the game 3 times before it works. And each download can take as long as 2 days. On a good computer.


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ploki122

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Quote:
ARAM queue
Sometimes, we need to be quiet about things. This is one of those things ;x
yeah... it's not like you already mentioned it in at least 1 interview...


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Mr VictorCrackus

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02-07-2013

Diablo 3 failed me. It eventually turned into such a grind fest that it felt I was only playing it to grind on.

Catacylsm for World of Warcraft also really burned me out terribly. The final raid, the ultimate destruction of a raid boss. Deathwing! And he gets killed the same day he is released.


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PapillonMyu

Senior Member

02-07-2013

^ pretty much what this guy said and some more.

Ragnarok 2. For those who played the original Ragnarok they know what they are in for, ragnarok 2 is basically a wow clone that nothing to do with the original Rag that is played to this day.

Dawnguard, was kind of a letdown not because devs wanted to, but because it was just to short.

Dishonored, Great game but they could have done so much more with it..Also its very short you can beat it in 12 hours.

Guild Wars 2: Was very fun for a couple of months but then I realized i had done everything worth doing in the game and they wouldnt simply release more content to keep the game alive, also pvp is boring and i expected so much more out of it.


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exe3

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Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We did with Sejuani - so the newer ones will likely do this. Heimer and Karma already have a direction that we approve of, so I think we might be sending the message of "looking for ideas" when we'll be in a "looking for feedback on results" more soon.
Any even very slight hints you can give to Karma? I love her Q and E and how Mantra's currently work. I don't want her playstyle (for mid) changed please! T_T (I understand you can't say anything i'm just so worried about it given i've just picked her up and have fallen in love with Karma)


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Bobo the Goat

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapillonMyu View Post

Guild Wars 2: Was very fun for a couple of months but then I realized i had done everything worth doing in the game and they wouldnt simply release more content to keep the game alive, also pvp is boring and i expected so much more out of it.
You lasted longer than I did. I think the biggest letdown for me with Guild Wars 2 was that I put thousands of hours into GW1. I understood that they were going to do a lot of things differently. ANet said they were making Guild Wars 2 to fix stuff they couldn't fix within the framework for Guild Wars 1. The problem was, I disagreed with what needed fixing I guess.

Guild Wars 2 simply had none of the gameplay elements of the original that I liked. The only thing that carried over for me was the art direction, which I still think is top of the industry (though, GW1 still impresses me more than GW2 because of its peers and the resources it uses). This makes me quite sad, because I don't think Guild Wars 1 was popular enough for anyone to ever make a true successor for it, unlike another of my favorite games: Diablo 2.


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Flandag

Senior Member

02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It's a tricky topic, because our job is to make decisions based on what players not only want, but need. Let me explain that a bit.

Determining what players want is actually pretty simple - your most invested users tend to be very vocal and will put effort into making sure they're heard (ie; most forumers!) This is a good metric of understanding what players want, at least for high-engagement folks.

What players need is where players don't proclaim a desire for something, but it helps provide something they say they want. Many times, this is more than a single solution - it requires several steps of implementation to reach a result, or takes time to bake in many cases. Let me provide two example of want vs need, and why want cannot be the only driver for developers;

At Riot, we nerf champions. Nerfs are rarely wanted (and many times, unwanted). But, players want to have a fair experience with a variety of options. Additionally, a game without power caps and heavy power creep (something still happening faster than I'd like...) can disrupt the core game design focused around choices, decision-making, and strategy. To accomplish this, we need to nerf champions, even if players don't explicitly want us to.

To use your example, in the pattern of Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King, the changes to easier raid content and more accessibility is actually informed by a want that a lot of players expressed - IE, raids were content that was exclusive from them and they wanted a piece. I respect the guys who make WoW (and its success is a testament), but this is a good example of where the developers should have recognized the core need of exclusivity and the right tuning of that, and steered away from players said they wanted. Personally, I think Burning Crusade is a sweet spot.

The above is a fantastic example of why we have to make tough choices and not always just do what players ask us to do - it's not always the right course of action.

The problem you're speaking to, in my opinion, is when developers think they always have that answer and that being a developer gives you divination into what that is. In my mind, game development isn't about having answers - it's the ways in which you find them.

Our interaction on here isn't just lip-service, it's so we can better optimize decisions around player wants - and explain what players need when they don't want it. This informs us a lot, but we make decisions based on a number of factors - player desires and feedback being one of them.

I hope this helps explain how I feel about this, and how the developer/player interaction looks to me.
This, ladies in gentlemen, is mostly why he has the job and we don't.