Some conversion for Coop games into normal wins for matchmaking?

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Chronic Diablo

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Senior Member

02-07-2013

I completely agree with Troa. NPCs (Bots) do not teach you the methods and strategies required for PvP. NPC games should not count towards anything. Go play PvP; win , lose, it doesn't matter. You're learning.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronic Diablo View Post
I completely agree with Troa. NPCs (Bots) do not teach you the methods and strategies required for PvP. NPC games should not count towards anything. Go play PvP; win , lose, it doesn't matter. You're learning.
Tell that to bronze ELO. That's 75% of the ranked population. They absolutely suck. They just don't learn. Unfortunately for me, that includes me, thanks to 7 straight ranked losses in placement matches, followed by 4 ranked losses with absolutely terrible players that put me in Bronze V.

GAHHH HOW CAN IT BE MY FAULT I'M SOO GOOD EVERYONE ELSE JUST SUCKS

Edit: After rereading Troa's baseline idea, I like that.

Thanks, Troa.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-12-2013

Totally not a bump.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Waiting for responses.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Waiting for responses.


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Redwolf90

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Member

02-16-2013

Speaking from experience (see below for my "for perspective"), I can say that co-op wins and losses should not have any impact on player vs player beyond what it already does, and hope that the following will give you some insight on why.

Currently, playing vs AI provides experience and influence points, both of which allow players to experience the "casual" side of League of Legends, whilst still experiencing the full content.

You are not being "shortchanged" by not having your elo modified by your co-op wins and losses, you are actually being helped. It is important to note that any matchmaking queue has an "elo", it is just hidden to players; so this does include normal games. When you are placed into teams in player vs player, matchmaking attempts to find a match that has as close to a 50% win rate for both teams as is mathematically possible. This is why pros only play against other pros and is why co-op victories should not make a difference.

What you are asking is for AI to create an artificial boost in what the system perceives to be your skill, and place you against a team that can match that boosted skill level. You are therefore, playing against a team that has more player versus player experience. Statistically speaking, this will mean you will lose more often than you will win. For the team that you are playing with, that would be very unfair. You simply do not get the same experience playing against AI as you do against players.

The simplest example I can possibly give is this: Jukes.
Bots cannot juke; they are not programmed to do so, nor respond to jukes, and this can be taken advantage of. Yes, they can track players very easily, as they have an instantaneous reaction time, but notice that flashing over walls, or using stealth properly will typically be successful. While bots have the advantages of instantaneous reaction time and guaranteed coordination, (given over players to allow them to be moderately challenging to the casual player), they still lack very fundamental pieces of game play that would put them at a competitive level. This causes AI games to be challenging (or not) differently than what causes player versus player games to be challenging (or in other cases, very easy).

Point being that the play of these two modes, (co-op and normal), are simply too dramatically different for co-op to modify your matchmaking placement. You are rewarded for AI games. This is through experience and IP. By gaining levels in AI you are automatically placed in a different place in matchmaking than if you had not. (You are placed with other players who gained levels with AI, not PvP). Again, this is in an attempt to put you as close to a 50% win rate for both teams as is mathematically possible.

Casual players (those with time to play only 1 or 2 games a day) will, in most cases, not have the experience that a competitive player (we'll say greater than 2 games per day) will have.

tl;dr
If playing AI games should give you better matchmaking placement (as you believe), then playing these games should also give you the skill to earn that placement anyway.

For perspective, I currently have:

1772 Normal Wins, 1510 Normal Losses [I track these]
Almost 700 co-op Wins, 0 co-op Losses. [I don't track wins, but I've never lost].
I've played 522 ranked games since ranked was introduced, and have played since October of 2009.


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Wendigo45

Junior Member

02-17-2013

Can't bump your own post, and this idea is stupid, I leveled up to 20 playing bots, but the fact that they are so easy makes them worth nothing. Player Versus Player is quite harder than bots. They shouldn't be linked because you would be given credit for something you shouldn't get. Example: I let my sister play my account, shes bad, but still wins tons of Bot games, i am a lot better, i win normal games at about a 50% ratio, should i be given credit for Bot games when normal games take way more skill, and thought.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendigo45 View Post
Can't bump your own post,
I do every day. Get at my level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendigo45 View Post
and this idea is stupid,
Great way to respond to someone's idea. Clearly a member of polite society and a product of wonderful first world education.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendigo45 View Post
I leveled up to 20 playing bots, but the fact that they are so easy makes them worth nothing. Player Versus Player is quite harder than bots.
Difficulty has nothing to do with time played. The inclusion of number of wins is a "time played" metric. You can have 300 wins and 1000 losses; you are not good, but you keep playing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendigo45 View Post
They shouldn't be linked because you would be given credit for something you shouldn't get.
This world is unfair. Way to support the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendigo45 View Post
Example: I let my sister play my account, shes bad, but still wins tons of Bot games, i am a lot better, i win normal games at about a 50% ratio, should i be given credit for Bot games when normal games take way more skill, and thought.
What you are doing is fraud. No one should be able to have access to your account for any reason on purpose. Technically, you are smurfing or boosting. Your argument is invalid.

She should get her own account.

I'm assuming the ranked account with the same name that has 2 straight losses on lolking is yours. Congratulations, welcome to bronze elo. Join the club.


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Zer0blizzard

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Waiting for responses.


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DawnStrider371

Member

02-24-2013

Let me just make sure I understand what it is you want. You don't want ELO changes from bot games, just recognition that you have played tons of bot games?


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