@Riot:Why are promotions punishing and demotions... even more punishing...

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AdorkableKitty

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Senior Member

02-07-2013

I have been on a losing streak today, so I guess it is my turn to write a Q.Q thread. As I said, I lost a lot of games today (it's a team game so when you lose, it's everyone's fault this isn't a "I CANT CARRY MY FEEDER TEAM THREAD"), however, demotions... are ridiculously punishing.

I was demoted today after hitting 0 points and then losing 1 game, not sure if this is how the system was intended to work (supposedly you are supposed to have more than one chance), but if it is, then I think the following argument may be valid:

Suppose you win/lose 20 league points for every game, (I know this isn't 100% accurate, but let's all play pretend for a second).

If you are at 0 league points, win 5 games in a row, reach your promotion series, win 2/3 games, and move up, you are 100 league points higher than your previous point. you got a promotion, however, given each win is worth 20 points, you really should have been 140 league points higher. By playing the promotion series, you lost 40 points you might have received otherwise.

Now for the inverse, suppose you are at 0 league points and lose 1 game, given that you are demoted, you lose 50 league points for losing 1 game, and while I am not a believer in "elo hell", I do believe there are some games that one simply cannot carry. Win's/losses are around equal because given that you are playing the best you can every game and you try hard, then you should be winning at least ~6/10 games and you can slowly crawl up ladder with that statistic.

HOWEVER, if you lose 1 game and are demoted, losing 50 points, you must win 3 games in a row to get back to the promotion series (given every game is 20 points, you actually lose 10 league points just for entering the promotion series) and then win 2 more. By losing 1 game, the demotion can set you back roughly 150 league points.

In order to recover from that, it is expected that you win 8/10 of your next games, just to break even, (160 points to get back to where you are minus the 10 for entering the promotion series). However, you start back at 0 points in your previous tier, and if you lose again.... Well, that means at an 80% win rate, you are still moving down the ladder.

TL;DR I think the new system is pretty cool, I like that there are certain safety points (leagues) where you will not fall down anymore. However, I think that demotions are far too punishing, and promotions do not make up for the lost time in the promotion series.

Possible solution: Consider starting demoted players at a point value other than 50, and potentially allow promoted players to continue based on their promotion series (if they win 2/2 start division with 40 points, or 2/3 start with 20). I just feel like it would give a more positive feeling to the promotion series as opposed to "Uh oh, I hope no one trolls me for the next 2 games or else I am set back 7 hours of game play". Thank you for your consideration.


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Sedna

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Senior Member

02-07-2013

This. When I get promoted and get slapped at 0 points, its way to easy to fall back down without a real chance.


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SnoH

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02-07-2013

I'm still not really sure how I feel about the new system to be honest. Finished my placement matches got placed in Bronze III (little dissapointing but what can you do, no I in team etc). Win my first game after placement, gained 35 LP, next match lost 25. Then today I'm playing have someone quit to quote "Go to practice." after enemy team wouldn't surrender at 20 (had a nice kill lead on them too but couldn't win 4v5s after that without our amumu tank) dropped to 0. Next game we just simply got outplayed in bottom lane (which I was in so not dodging any fault here). Loss comes shortly after 20 I'm thinking "Meh oh well on to the next game." untill I got to the score screen and see that I've been demoted. ----> Motivation to do solo/duo ranked: Completely gone.

I'm familiar with the type of league system that LoL is using now since it's very similar to SC2's, but even when I first started laddering on SC2 it took more than 1 loss at 0 to drop me a league (which in theory the system is still trying to figure out your true rating/league).

My suggestion is don't even assign people to leagues till after the system has determined better where they belong, gaining and losing points so wildly then suddenly dropping a league without any warning other than "Oh I'm at 0 points now, if I lose 1 more game there's a chance that it'll just drop me completely from this league.". Something like this if anything will make "ladder anxiety" worse for a lot of people since if they hit 0 points they'll be worrying and panicing that they'll drop another league off a single loss.


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Fisted by Mundo

Junior Member

02-07-2013

Story of my life


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AdorkableKitty

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Senior Member

02-07-2013

Yeah, league is copy and pasting SC2 ladders, (didn't want to say this lest I invoke the wrath of the old gods (Phreak)), but yeah, I think the promotion series is overall just a painful grind of multiple hours for little reward.


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GiottoXIII

Senior Member

02-07-2013

I'm fairly happy with teh new system once u break out of elo hell its just a mater of being outplayed or not... and counterpikcing ( im in silver IV) with 16-12 and an 65 points it is anxious but then again its ranked if u dont want to be anxious i say dont play ranked... I mean if you're not concerned with being good in ranked matches and draft picking then i say just play normal drafts/ blinds this may be a little bias especially since im on a roll in the ranking system but I just feel overall the system is good has a few problems but good


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AdorkableKitty

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02-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiottoXIII View Post
I'm fairly happy with teh new system once u break out of elo hell its just a mater of being outplayed or not... and counterpikcing ( im in silver IV) with 16-12 and an 65 points it is anxious but then again its ranked if u dont want to be anxious i say dont play ranked... I mean if you're not concerned with being good in ranked matches and draft picking then i say just play normal drafts/ blinds this may be a little bias especially since im on a roll in the ranking system but I just feel overall the system is good has a few problems but good
You are missing the point, the idea is that you lose significant amounts of points by winning or losing, just think that it seems kinda silly...