Do you think Riven is unviable right now?

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Capriciøus

Junior Member

02-05-2013

You don't get the chance to do those 1k autoattacks assuming the gold advantage between the teams are relatively even. (If your team is significantly ahead, you can afford to build whatever you want.) When your abilities are on CD, you will find yourself in the middle of an angry enemy team playing one of the squishiest non-supports in the game, like squishier than Graves. You are in no position to be autoing. Having an IE will not affect whether you will burst down their AD carry or not, if it did, it means you are underfed and they already have their defensive item, which means you will probably lose anyway.


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X74

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capricius View Post
You don't get the chance to do those 1k autoattacks assuming the gold advantage between the teams are relatively even. (If your team is significantly ahead, you can afford to build whatever you want.) When your abilities are on CD, you will find yourself in the middle of an angry enemy team playing one of the squishiest non-supports in the game, like squishier than Graves. You are in no position to be autoing. Having an IE will not affect whether you will burst down their AD carry or not, if it did, it means you are underfed and they already have their defensive item, which means you will probably lose anyway.
Okay, so hypothetically: you go into a teamfight without IE and expend all of your abilities. What do you do besides run away?

Honestly you probably wouldn't even have time to run very far either assuming the enemies had any form of CC and land it on you, and considering the fact that it takes longer to run away than it does to throw an autoattack, you'd be committing suicide just by going into the fight anyway.

Of course if you take advantage of IE you're not going to be autoattacking dead center in the middle of a teamfight. You're going to find the enemy closest to you yet farthest away from the enemy pack, and then get on a side of that enemy where you have the distance advantage of being farthest away from the enemy team. If you go into the fight and blow all your abilities, and you don't have time to fight a bit after that, even with autoattacks, you picked the wrong teamfight to jump into in the first place with or without IE, because either way you're not going to get out. That's a matter of "pulling stupid moves and getting killed without positioning yourself right", not just "autoattacking with IE". Picking IE doesn't mean "stand in the middle of a teamfight and have no caution of the fact that you're risking getting focused and killed", not everybody is stupid enough to try to autoattack in a bad position in a teamfight just because they have the crit to encourage them to.

If you have something that boosts damage output at a cost, in this case mobility, you need to utilize that advantage while negating the costs. In this case it's simple positioning or not picking stupid fights and doing stupid things in said stupid fights.

tl;dr: If it's not a good idea to autoattack to crit in a teamfight, given your position, don't autoattack. Do whatever you would normally do in that case.

Try it.


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Capriciøus

Junior Member

02-05-2013

To answer the OP more, while I said every champion is viable i don't think Riven is strong right now, meaning I wouldn't recommend her to a new player looking for a top lane/"bruiser' champion to learn and improve on the ladder with.

The recent nerfs are another of those cases where I feel like Riot takes champion names out of a hat, and randomly decide to buff or nerf X about them. While nerfs to Diana and Olaf were overdone, they could at least be explained by their popularity in tournaments. Riven was never picked competitively and had a 51% win rate before the nerfs I believe. I know that Riot has said they don't consider solo queue stats for balance changes but if they don't consider solo queue stats or tournament stats then it's like what is the meaning or justification for any of these balance changes.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

02-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by X74X View Post
That would be assuming that everyone in that elo deserves to be there, and you know as well as I do that many people don't. But I'm not here to argue about elo, I'm here to argue about the dynamics of a champion and why what I do works, with justification as to why it works. If I understand how something works it shouldn't really matter what elo I'm in if chances are I'm right. Feel free to completely ignore everything I'm going to post though just because I'm low in ranked, which I fail to take seriously or play at all anymore due to the massive pool of **** it's drowning in and the futility of any attempts to swim out.
We both know that Elo hell is just a weak lie that you tell first to yourself, then to everyone else to try to justify your low skill level while retaining your dumb**** pride.

Every last person in elo hell after more than 200 ranked games deserves to be there, period.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by X74X View Post
You don't need Merc Scimitar. If you need Magic Resist you'd be getting Maw of Malmortius. It's cheaper and almost equally as effective. I suppose it could work though since it's slightly better, but not in place of IE so much as Maw.

EDIT: Once again, I'm going off of the fact that it'd be good to use against health-heavy opponents. I don't see how Merc Scimitar is more effective against health-heavy opponents since IE has more AD in the first place and also has crit, which can be enhanced with the use of Atma's.

Try it and find out.
Maybe I wanted tenacity and cleanse, as, you know, a melee champion going against, you know, other melee champions that emphasize strong CC abilities to win duels. Just a thought.

Dumbass.


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Elodin

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Honestly, I feel like Riven *CAN* work, so the people saying "Oh, I played Riven and did <Insert multi-kill here>" don't really have much of a great argument.

I've seen Hemierdinger grab quadras, doesn't mean he doesn't need a re-work.

Riven's nerfs have dropped her previous strength, laning phase and the change in items just make this worse. Basically, she's straight up worse and not really worth picking over other champions.

I'm mostly bummed about the changes in the jungle, she used to be able to be a high risk/high reward jungler, but now that's weaker and her laning phase is weaker too.

Pretty much I replaced her with Vi.


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Azurlite

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Senior Member

02-06-2013

Riven win rate still dropping, discuss.


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AzChuah

Junior Member

02-06-2013

Yes. Unfortunately riven gets outclassed too hard now.
Her fellow bruisers are more useful in terms of damage and especially late game scaling.

Mid game is her peak, wayyy under-par late game due to itemization against her.
You nerf laning phase, you mitigate her mid-game.

No one even chooses her in pro tournaments because her late game sucks.

She is suppose to have a stronger mid game (from laning phase), to compensate for that.
Let alone the fact she can't really crit or build crit/ms/atkspd.


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X74

Senior Member

02-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantPyrophore View Post
We both know that Elo hell is just a weak lie that you tell first to yourself, then to everyone else to try to justify your low skill level while retaining your dumb**** pride.

Every last person in elo hell after more than 200 ranked games deserves to be there, period.
Are you assuming I have more than 200 ranked games? Where are you getting these numbers anyway?

According to your lolking you have exactly 13 ranked games recorded. How do you know at all how "200 ranked games" is this magic number that you supposedly should no longer be in low elo? You're pulling statistics out of your ass just like almost every other post you put on this forum because you're an egotistical little **** who can't stand what WAS a civil argument until you decided to step your ass right in the middle of it. Like I said, I'm not even here to argue about elo, hell, I didn't even refer to it as "elo hell".

I swear you do this in every single ****ing thread you post in. It's as if even if you don't know what the **** you're talking about you still have some obligation to post an opposing view to try to prove you're smarter than some random target you declare you don't like just for the sake of opposing them. You're the toxic type of player who just needs to leave the game because you're unfit to socialize with anybody without spazzing out and raging at somebody.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantPyrophore View Post
Maybe I wanted tenacity and cleanse, as, you know, a melee champion going against, you know, other melee champions that emphasize strong CC abilities to win duels. Just a thought.

Dumbass.
You didn't read the thread. I AGREED with Capricius that Mercurial Scimitar was better than Maw of Malmortius a post after that.

You're an overly hostile drama-siphoning dumb****. I'm done arguing with you if you're too stupid to read a bit further than the points you can incriminate me with. I'd much rather argue with Capricius since he seems to be a rational human being capable of being polite and actually reading in depth, unlike you. Really, get a ****ing grip.

I also like how it was probably you who went through all of my posts and downvoted them in your above fit of butthurt, to which I will leave you with this:


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Azurlite

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Senior Member

02-06-2013

Yeee, I'm going to take a break from ranked Riven until this is all patched up in the future patches. Dropped from 62 % to 53 % over time since this patch hit.