Are Champions As Awesome As They Could Be? @Morello @Feralpony @IronStylus @Xypherous

First Riot Post
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BestBilbo

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagee Prime View Post
I really like your well done post and how it continues to evolve.
Not a lot of 'evolvement' going on lately. For now, all we need is Morello to read and answer to the post above yours :)

We're having a hard time getting him over here again, but we won't give up !

Quote:
Good work and I agree with everything you have said for the most part and have really always though about this. Since I'm a Nidalee fan and you know it I'm going to go ahead and take a look at what you got and throw in my thoughts and ideas.
Sure - as far as Redesign Nidalee concerned - she's more of a Bestial Huntress now.

Link: http://lolredesigns.blogspot.nl/2012...e-bestial.html

Thank you for reading this by the way, if there are any questions you might have concerning the/some Redesigns that we don't mention in our thread, comments here or the FAQ - feel free to throw them at us !


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Morello

Lead Designer

02-04-2013
22 of 22 Riot Posts

Sorry, but I have very limited time. TLR me the thing to respond to, I can't do large walls of text on my schedule

Apologies!


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Sorry, but I have very limited time. TLR me the thing to respond to, I can't do large walls of text on my schedule

Apologies!
No problem, gonna send it in 5 minutes, gimme a second !

EDIT: Posted below ! Don't get scared by the amount of text, it's mostly reading, no need to answer most of that as it's just me stating stuff, I think/hope you'll agree.


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

02-04-2013

<deleted>

Forget about this post Morello, I'd like you to take a look and read at the latest post in this thread, dedicated to you and you are pretty much the only person who can answer this.


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

02-04-2013

EDIT:

Whoops, didn't see that you actually did shorten it down a bit!

@Morello

If you need it cut down more than that, I'll give you a quick play-by-play.


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Sagee Prime

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Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BestBilbo View Post
Sure - as far as Redesign Nidalee concerned - she's more of a Bestial Huntress now.

Link: http://lolredesigns.blogspot.nl/2012...e-bestial.html

Thank you for reading this by the way, if there are any questions you might have concerning the/some Redesigns that we don't mention in our thread, comments here or the FAQ - feel free to throw them at us !
I don't think your redesign takes into consideration Nidalee's lore but merely just here title. It just doesn't sit completely right with me. While Nidalee lore is kinda lacking in depth and detail(mainly due to it being really old) it does go on to say that her cougar power is due to raw magical enchantments from the jungle. I think with this in mind your remake should consider tuning her towards a flexible hybrid as she somewhat is now. I've done several personal redesigns myself but I never quite like the end results. It always looks either overwhelming or underwhelming.

Feel free to look at my old works: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...stial_huntress


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagee Prime View Post
I don't think your redesign takes into consideration Nidalee's lore but merely just here title. It just doesn't sit completely right with me. While Nidalee lore is kinda lacking in depth and detail(mainly due to it being really old) it does go on to say that her cougar power is due to raw magical enchantments from the jungle. I think with this in mind your remake should consider tuning her towards a flexible hybrid as she somewhat is now. I've done several personal redesigns myself but I never quite like the end results. It always looks either overwhelming or underwhelming.

Feel free to look at my old works: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...stial_huntress
We've actually answered the question concerning lore in this very thread and even in the FAQ - I hope you could check that out.

I will checkout your work however and give my opinion, probably tomorrow though (it's already 0:30 at night here. I'm from EUW you see)


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagee Prime View Post
I don't think your redesign takes into consideration Nidalee's lore but merely just here title. It just doesn't sit completely right with me. While Nidalee lore is kinda lacking in depth and detail(mainly due to it being really old) it does go on to say that her cougar power is due to raw magical enchantments from the jungle. I think with this in mind your remake should consider tuning her towards a flexible hybrid as she somewhat is now. I've done several personal redesigns myself but I never quite like the end results. It always looks either overwhelming or underwhelming.

Feel free to look at my old works: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...stial_huntress
Kits aren't there to service the lore--but rather, lore is there to give depth to the kit and the character behind it (see Thresh and Vi's "Who is this champion and why do they do what they do?").

Lore can be rewritten, and it certainly does not dictate the development of the champion itself. If her lore needs to be rewritten to resonate more strongly with what's readily available at a glance (ie. "huntress chick that turns into a cougar"), then so be it!


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Sagee Prime

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Senior Member

02-04-2013

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Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
Kits aren't there to service the lore--but rather, lore is there to give depth to the kit and the character behind it (see Thresh and Vi's "Who is this champion and why do they do what they do?").

Lore can be rewritten, and it certainly does not dictate the development of the champion itself. If her lore needs to be rewritten to resonate more strongly with what's readily available at a glance (ie. "huntress chick that turns into a cougar"), then so be it!
Good point and it needs to be rewritten anyway.


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

02-04-2013

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Originally Posted by Sagee Prime View Post
Good point and it needs to be rewritten anyway.
Thanks dude - let me give you a quick observation on your work on Nidalee - I really feel I can talk about this right now, I couldn't do this previously as I had no idea how a champion should work or look like.

The first thing I have remember was the fact how you mentioned 'Nidalee's clunky, she isn't really sure what to do, is she encouraged to hop around in Cougar form (AD) or stay in Human while healing and tossing out spears (AP).

This is what ItemsGuy fixed - he made everything scale on AD as the playstyle should be unified as a whole and not broken down into two playstyles for the sake of breaking it down - it waters down the experience of the champion. 'Yes my spears deal damage now, but why the hell can't I wreck balls with this bad@ss Cougar !?' and vica versa.

Secondly, the heal in her kit is just added for the sake of adding it. Sure it works but not only does it enforce the clunky and weird scaling, it is also of little relevance to her as a character.

Saying that she is the ultimate druid would be wrong - if a 'ultimate full druid' champion would be made the champion wouldn't be about tossing out spears and traps and all of that. Right now she is a watered down version of a bestial huntress with a small glimpse of what a druid could do - she's not a bestial huntress as much as she could be and she's far from a 'full druid champion'.

I hope this explains.

EDIT: Concerning lore, gonna give a few examples. Mordekaiser. Mentioned in the OP aswell. We don't know why what or how he does what he does if we haven't read his lore.

His readability therefore is extremely poor; this guy has huge bulky armour and a giant mace, we expect him to smash around with that giant mace, in the end he works more like a mage and spawns ghosts out of the corpses he makes ?

Take Thresh for example, as ItemsGuy said: Kits aren't there to service the lore--but rather, lore is there to give depth to the kit and the character behind it. Who is this champion and why do they do what they do ?

Lore should tell us why they do what they do, not what they do. What they do should already be present and extremely readable the first time you encouter the champions and this is what happens with some good designs like Thresh and Vi.

Wanna read their lore ? Go ahead ! You'll get to know the story behind the sadistic jailer, you already got that part. You'll get to know the story behind the chick punching everyone, I don't think I have to explain how people could possibly guess she punches people, haha.