+3 +2 +1 ... -17 why riot why

First Riot Post
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Tbird

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
+5 out of how many total games.
I was giving an example not stating this is what happened to me (just btw)...

But the total games should not matter. If you are roughly 1200 ELO and have won 50% of your games whether it is 100 or 200 you would get roughly the same gain in ELO or LP with a 5 win streak.


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Zydion

Associate Software Engineer

02-04-2013
4 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunk Lord View Post
I think one big issue in regards to the feel of the system is that our Elo plays such a huge part in determining our progression rate, yet we can't see it and only realize we're getting ahead of ourselves once we've gained 3LP from a win suddenly. Maybe some sort of visual "level" that goes from left to right depending on our MMR : Div/LP?

So it'd be like this for someone with an MMR matching their current Division/LP:

(Red Zone) |-----------------||------------------| (Green Zone)

Then for someone who's MMR was too low for their current ranking:

(Red Zone) |-----||------------------------------| (Green Zone)

And finally someone who's ready to breeze through the ranks:

(Red Zone) |-------------------------------||----| (Green Zone)

-----------

This way you could leave the Elo part out of it, but at least show us that we're getting ahead of ourselves gradually, and should expect to be in the for long haul.

Y/n?
This is a great idea and I believe someone else has already suggested a similar indication or a popup box of why you gained/loss the amount of LP you did. I'm all for more indicators and I'm sure Yegg and his team are already ironing out the details for you guys.


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zZBlackmatterZz

Member

02-04-2013

Ohh I wish I was grouped with people in silver + division all the time =- )


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Unrestricted PK

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Senior Member

02-04-2013

Finally. I am so glad that no longer will people like me who said.. hey something is amiss here.. will get downvoted into oblivion and flamed.. because now many of you have experienced that this ish is currently broken and unfair..

Now riot.. come on and fix it already.


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Awaen

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Senior Member

02-04-2013

Its not broken and unfair, it just badly displays the information to you.

You'd still have to do the exact same amount of work under the old system, its just displayed poorly right now.


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Isochronous

Member

02-04-2013

Don't worry man, just keep grinding, there is some arbitrary value out there that is tracking your status. GRIND BABY GRIND!


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Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awaen View Post
Its not broken and unfair, it just badly displays the information to you.

You'd still have to do the exact same amount of work under the old system, its just displayed poorly right now.
Not true at all. With the elo gain you'd be able to hit it better.


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Stevev45

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zydion View Post
I believe Yegg has explained this many times, but I'll try to explain again.

The LP clamping that happens at Division I is due to your MMR being much lower than needed to be in the next tier, as tiers earned are permanent. So in order for the system to be sure that you belong in the next tier, it'll clamp your LP gains when you are close to promotional series to make sure that you can consistently win your games and not just due to a lucky streak.

If you keep winning more than you lose (aka your MMR slowly moves up to the expected level for the next tier), the clamping will go away. Unfortunately, the current implementation makes you feel like you are closer to the promotion that you actually are, then it suddenly slaps you in the face by clamping your LP gain when you reach 90+ in Div I. They have already eased the clamping since Leagues came out and I believe Yegg and his team are working on a smoother LP gain so you can have a better gauge at how far you are from an actual promotion instead of losing more LP than you gain when the clamping happens.

To give you guys a clearer picture of this, I'll use my personal experience from this weekend.
I was 1900 seaon 2, and about 1730 in s3 when Leagues happened. I was placed in Gold Div I.
At first, I was gaining anywhere form 17-25 LP from a win and losing about the same amount unless I had a leaver on my team which made me lose less LP than usual (new system compensates for leaves). Which means that in 4-5 wins I'd be at 100 LP playing my promotional series. However, when I reached around 85 LP, I was suddenly gaining around 3 LP instead.

I agree it felt bad at the time that when I thought I only need one more win to get my promo series instead turned into possibly 5 more straight wins. I got to about 96 LP then lost a game and dropped back down to about 80, wiping a bunch of wins that I acquired. You bet I felt discouraged at the time too. But if you think about it, I was trying to permanently qualify for Plat tier. Assuming 1850 is plat, and my MMR was at 1730 when I started. After 5 wins and 2 loses, with max of 14 Elo per win and losing 11 in the ideal case, my MMR would only sitting at 1778 yet I was already at 85 LP. If I gained the same amount without the clamping I'd only need one more game to qualify for promo series, but in the old Elo system, I'd have needed (1850-1778)/14=6 straight wins and the Plat earned wouldn't even be permanent!!! (keep in mind all the values are in the absolute ideal situation too, I'd possible need more wins in reality) So it became clear to me why I was being clamping and only gaining 3 LP. It was because my MMR was too far from the expected MMR. So in order to permanently earn the Plat tier, I needed to prove myself.

After understanding that, I just kept playing, expecting to have at least 6 wins over loses for the system to no longer clamp me. However, after hovering a couple times around 90LP (losing more than gaining of course), I qualified for my series from winning one game after dropping to 85 LP. I gained 15 LP from that game, which I assumed since I was winning more than I lost, the clamping went away. I eventually went on to winning my series 3-2 now I'm in Plat Div 5. You could tell how tense I was in the last game when Sivir was 0-7 and Teemo was 0-5 and I was losing top. But no one raged and eventually we pulled through and won. It was a great game and the plat now feels well earned knowing that I won't lose it.

Hopefully this clears it up for you guys and give you a little more hope about the new system. I agree the way it's implemented right now can make you feel discouraged because it kinda gives you a false sense of hope then suddenly takes it away. But rest assured it is much better than the volatile Elo system before IMO.

You mean showing a meaningless statistic (LP), and hiding the statistic that really matters (MMR) is confusing? Who would have thought.


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Awaen

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Senior Member

02-04-2013

Considering your LP gains and losses are directly linked to your elo relative to your league placement, not really. Once they fix out the clamping issues, instead of +20 +20 +20 +20 +3 +3, you'd see something like

+10 +10 +10 +10 +10 +10;. Same kind of work, you still have to pull your elo up to the right minimum, it just shows a lot better.


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50West

Senior Member

02-04-2013

Zydion,

Can you explain the logic behind having a Series just to go up a Division, when we can go down Divisions (as opposed to Tiers)?

Do you think allowing people to go down Tiers, and therefore removing the "clamping" and Series matches, would be more beneficial and still accomplish the same goals of the new system?