Seeker's Armguard to Zhonya's Hourglass upgrade

First Riot Post
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Kchaosrei

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Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Basically, the stats in Z Hourglass will assume you've maxed Seeker's Armguard.
does this mean that if we don't max it it will not be as strong?


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Rivini

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Basically, the stats in Z Hourglass will assume you've maxed Seeker's Armguard.
Then what's the point of having a stacking system on it? Not trying to sound rude. Just wondering.


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Rivini

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kchaosrei View Post
does this mean that if we don't max it it will not be as strong?
He's saying whether you have full stacks or not, the stats on Zhonya's will be the same (50 armor, 120 AP).


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Purple Puma

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Senior Member

02-01-2013

Thresh loves Seeker's Armguard


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Albireo

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Senior Member

02-01-2013

It's just to don't feel that you need to rush a zhonyas because you already had a chain vest like in the past.

The armguard it's a cool item, i think the stack system is just to prevent that you return to lane in 6 minutes with something that give you a lot of defense resistance (because armor early on actually works), and offensive power, in the same pack.


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Kranah

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Basically, the stats in Z Hourglass will assume you've maxed Seeker's Armguard.
i was told never to assume anything, cause you make an ass out of u and me =p


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Aavak

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Basically, the stats in Z Hourglass will assume you've maxed Seeker's Armguard.
Oh hai der Morello! And thanks, was a bit curious too.


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NoGoodInGoodbye

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Ferrum View Post
Does that mean the extra armor and AP from killing units are essentially free stats until it is upgraded, and that the gold cost reflects only the base stats? Otherwise it seems pointless having the stacks in the first place if Zhonya's will give you those stats anyway.
The stats are pointless? Would you rather it NOT give 15 extra armor and AP? As it is fully stacked it gives 45 armor which is 720 gold and 40 AP which is 860 gold and it only costs 1160 gold...It's just filling a gap in AP itemization as the only way they can counter physical damage is with a chain vest and to complete requires a big investment.


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Daemiun

Senior Member

02-01-2013

so now xerath be SUPER OP! lol


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

02-01-2013
2 of 2 Riot Posts

So this was slightly controversial - essentially we knew we wanted a growth mechanic on the item because:

1. It let us put slightly more stats on the item than we could otherwise since the item is somewhat situational.
2. The item's implicit assumption of the situation is that you're getting this when you're going to face against some really rough times - because otherwise, the combination of statistics on it are fairly suboptimal if you're crushing lane.
3. Provide a fallback pattern if you cannot upgrade the item - as you would in a gold starved situation (AKA - I am being stomped by my opposition - I am limited in gold and thus every single mid-tier item better be as efficient as possible.)

However, there were some conflicting goals involved:

1. Don't hurt Zhonya's for those characters who had Zhonya as a core item (though actually, if you were to twist my arm, Zhonya is probably a little too pricey at the moment.)
2. Don't provide overwhelming advantage while rushed - also known as "don't create the inverse problem if possible."

So the mechanic was chosen because the stacking gameplay seemed to be the best fallback pattern for ranged mages. Ranged mages have a far easier time to farm up the stacks if they are losing and also probably the least likely to finish the item, compared to melee AP, for example. Additionally - since Zhonya's isn't a core item for many ranged mages - it was important that the item felt like it was doing work while still in your inventory. The item needed to be cheap, component wise - so that you would most likely finish it - but also balance itself out if rushed.

We chose a relatively small cap because the item's window needs to be focused around early game adaptability / small buys (hence why there's two cloth armors in the recipe, for example) and we chose the stacking passive because it gave us the room to add the additional statistics that it would need to be a compelling choice even if Zhonya's was not desirable in the short term.

Anyhow - hopefully armguard opens up space for more lanes - it's always a nice hope that we might see more even matchups between AP or AD champions in the same lane.