Looking for Sejuani Feedback

First Riot Post
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Thessalonike

Senior Member

01-28-2013

@Meddler, these changes are not real are they?


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Dualbee

Member

01-28-2013

I would do a few things to rework sej.
First: her passive. It's unnecessary. remove it and add it to her e and otherwise keep the mechanic the same, and give her a new passive. I'm thinking something along the lines of galio or rammus's passive, or alternately the inverse of one. A passive that gives you armor for building ad or gives you mr for building ap. This could be the defensive and offensive solution for sejuani, and could help her stay relevant at all points in the game.

Second: her q needs to feel more powerful. its a great escape tool, a way to close distance, a way to proc frost, and a way to help clear waves brutally fast, but it doesnt do what it looks like it should. I mean she's literally charging you down at mach speed swinging her flail like a madwoman. That ability should have knockback, and should scale off ad (as well as ap???) and possibly deal physical instead of magic damage, simply cause It doesn't fit thematically for her boar to be a mage. Alternately I always thought it would be cool if sej could autoattack while charging, and instead of a knockback it could just be kind of a (push) sort of like poppy's just without the stun and with some measure of aoe. Or even have the q remain basically the same but have her next autoattack after charging root the target for a suitably short amount of time. Or instead of stopping when colliding with an enemy champ you can just dash to a location in like an aoe that equals her current max dash range, dealing damage to enemies you pass through, and the boar gores things with its tusks at the end of the charge, doing aoe damage and knockback like rivens third q charge. Not sure if that would help or not I just think it would be cool.

Her w im pretty happy with, all things considered. Maybe a few damage tweaks would be nice at early levels so it deals a bit more for faster jungle times, but I'm not too worried about it. You could make it super broken by adding a clause like (dealing damage with northern winds lowers the cooldown of permafrost by 1 seconds) turning sej into this super scary teamfighting machine that can spam permafrost in teamfights XD. And then her ultimate. I love sejuani's ultimate, personally, the range, the splash, everything about it is downright hilarious, and wrecking people with it is very entertaining. Thematically, it bothers me, because, again, she throws her flail, and it magically becomes magic .. uwu it seems like there should be a physical component in there somewhere... but more so the whole (units hit by splash damage arent stunned as long) thing I think the stun should be the same for enemy champs closest to the impact and sharply decreasing stun as you move further away from that point.
But whatever you decide to do I can't wait for sejjie to get revamped I luv her so much keep her amazing! uwu


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Slappybiscuit

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticfury View Post
This thread is really frustrating. Meddler asks us our opinions, reads other threads that have well thought out discussions. And the consensus is to not change Sejuani's feel, don't buff her much, just change some very small game mechanics QoL, and help her 1-2 round clears in the jungle.

The PBE changes didn't take a single recommendation into account. Meddler's hints to what he wants to do with her are never discussed anywhere prior to him saying that's pretty much what they are going to do.

It's sickening reading this garbage. Take a champion that is on the bottom half of being balanced, but close enough to call balanced. Then change every ability so that none are the same, take her Ult which was her key signature and ruin it completely, and then say nothing about it. The only improvement that should have even remotely been considered on her Ult was to lower the CD, anything else was just plain bad.

Sejuani is my favorite, and the FAIL attempt in PBE would have to come out extremely OP for me to even enjoy playing her and I hate OP champs. Please revert, focus on QoL, and stop it with a remake, she did not need a remake.
I agree with this. I thought they were going to make her more like a warrior and less like a mage, but meddling around with minor things and changing things that actually works makes no sense.


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

01-28-2013

When Riot asks our opinion and then does the exact opposite, especially when no one even hinted at such changes, is a huge slap in the face. Why ask if they don't even count our opinions? Was it just to show us how stupid we are and that their rework is superior to our suggestions?

Sejuani is supposed to be a Utility, Mobile, Jungle-Tank (definition of tank differs), Her kit was awesome, still is, she just needed a few very small tweaks without changing her abilities. Passive, base stats and perhaps dash. Some artwork here and there perhaps, but not a complete rework.

I am unhappy at this pathetic attempt to fix an unbroken champ. I'd prefer they did nothing than this. Makes me wish I hadn't pushed so hard for the QoL changes in S2.


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Slappybiscuit

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticfury View Post
Her kit was awesome, still is, she just needed a few very small tweaks without changing her abilities. Passive, base stats and perhaps dash. Some artwork here and there perhaps, but not a complete rework.
Agreed. Part of the problem is her kit doesnt reflect on what her champion should feel like. They could keep the skills the same, but change how the ability appears. Instead of artic rush dashing in have it be like a boar-bullrush, instead of ice swirling around bristle's feet have the boar breathe frost, instead of ice just coming from nowhere have bristle stomp the ground.

They could really do a better job utilizing the character model into the abilities if they actually thought about it. And it wouldn't change one thing about how she is played.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticfury View Post
When Riot asks our opinion and then does the exact opposite, especially when no one even hinted at such changes, is a huge slap in the face. Why ask if they don't even count our opinions? Was it just to show us how stupid we are and that their rework is superior to our suggestions?

Sejuani is supposed to be a Utility, Mobile, Jungle-Tank (definition of tank differs), Her kit was awesome, still is, she just needed a few very small tweaks without changing her abilities. Passive, base stats and perhaps dash. Some artwork here and there perhaps, but not a complete rework.

I am unhappy at this pathetic attempt to fix an unbroken champ. I'd prefer they did nothing than this. Makes me wish I hadn't pushed so hard for the QoL changes in S2.
I told Meddler I would be optimistic about what they were doing. They won't destroy her identity just because she is harder to learn than other tanks.

I would like clarification on these PBE rumors though.


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Kanyeezus Christ

Senior Member

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Fluffy Shoggoth

Senior Member

01-28-2013

I think she probably needs to be a bit more tanky early on as her early game tends to be pretty difficult sometimes. But I actually really like how her kit works, my only issues tend to be her cooldowns and the way her Q acts with unit collision.

Say if you had enemy champions either side of you, sometimes when you try to charge forward or in a direction where the enemy champion isn't, the unit detection bugs and stops you from moving. It would be nice for Sejuani to be able to charge straight through and into and out of fights with her charge, instead of being stopped by the first champion she hits. Her charge should finish at the end of where you choose to go, pushing enemy champions slightly to the side as she charges through. I personally think that fits Sejuani's whole 'big tough boar rider' thing she has going.

There have been a few bugs I've found with her ult. But her kit is fine other then her Q. Cooldowns are a bit high, but I don't struggle with that too much after getting a Frozen heart or something like that.


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Gugorrak

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Junior Member

01-28-2013

Sejuani changes were undone in the PBE.

Look, you want to change her? that's nice.
You want to remake her? there we're bad.

While I was playing her in the PBE with the changes. I loved the frost/permafrost change. That made her place for a much better passive, more according to what you want for her.
"You would make an excelent boar food"
Why no a Bristle's bite passive?

The only thing bad when she was changed was the bugged Ult. Fixing that it was fine.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

01-28-2013
19 of 38 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raviance View Post
@Meddler, these changes are not real are they?
Sorry for the confusion here folks. What was on the PBE yesterday was the result of a couple of changed files that govern the application of Frost mixed in with Sejuani's current files, resulting in bugs and bits that didn't make sense together.

To clarify a few things:

1. As previously mentioned the tag for Permafrost will be shifting to a passive on the E, unaffected by tenacity and potentially with a slightly longer duration. Sejuani will get a new passive as a result. Whether that mark can be applied when Permafrost is on CD will depend on how that mark interacts with the rest of the kit - if there's no benefit in having the mark applied it'll be disabled, if there is it'll still be active.

2. W will definitely not be both applying that mark and gaining increased damage from it, that was the result of incompatible files being mixed. At the moment we're looking at various iterations on W, some of which apply the mark but don't gain damage from it. Will update in a while once we have something solid - this is very much a point of experimentation at the moment.

3. Sejuani's ult will remain an AOE stun when you hit a champion. We are testing a version where the auto detonation at end does not stun and instead applies a really powerful slow, which would allow us to add more power to other parts of Sejuani's kit whilst still allowing skilled plays to get as much power out of the spell as at present. As above that's part of ongoing testing rather than final and would admittedly remove some gameplay on the Sejuani players part (though also adds more counterplay). Some of the extra stuff added's been testing pretty well so it's certainly an avenue worth exploring.