[Champion Concept] Zenn, the Frog Blade

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EpicFrogNinja

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Senior Member

01-24-2013

Nice!


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EpicFrogNinja

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01-27-2013

Wow. Thanks for that amazing review Mytharionas. There's a lot, so I'll start making changes now, and I'll continue making more over the course of a few days.


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DunnAskMeh

Junior Member

01-27-2013

I really like this concept... His ult is just like Udyr's, with a bit of Nidalee/Elise/Jayce transformation going on. I really do think that his light from should use mana. If he uses energy AND fury, that would be too op because he would basically only be limited by CD... where as Nidalee, Jayce, and Elise all use mana in at least 1 form.


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EpicFrogNinja

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Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DunnAskMeh View Post
I really like this concept... His ult is just like Udyr's, with a bit of Nidalee/Elise/Jayce transformation going on. I really do think that his light from should use mana. If he uses energy AND fury, that would be too op because he would basically only be limited by CD... where as Nidalee, Jayce, and Elise all use mana in at least 1 form.
Thanks for the feedback!

But if I made one side use mana, then if he bought mana items they would be useless to the other side. He is restricted by Energy in his light aspect. However, I'll increase his energy costs.


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Kanonmat

Junior Member

01-30-2013

So the ultimate changes your Aspect, which means the first time you use it you will change into Dark and be stuck there until the ultimate is off CD again?
If so, i was wondering about his ways to generate and consume Fury.
I don't see anywhere a way for him to lose Fury (unless there is a default decay in the system when out of combat) but none of his abilitys seem to spend it.
Does that mean he will be stuck at 100 Fury as long as he is in combat?
The boost of +50 from hitting the Vengeful Lash is the only way i see his fury changing at all as it is.
Something should spend his fury if something else builds it! Or am I missing something? ^^


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EpicFrogNinja

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01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanonmat View Post
So the ultimate changes your Aspect, which means the first time you use it you will change into Dark and be stuck there until the ultimate is off CD again?
If so, i was wondering about his ways to generate and consume Fury.
I don't see anywhere a way for him to lose Fury (unless there is a default decay in the system when out of combat) but none of his abilitys seem to spend it.
Does that mean he will be stuck at 100 Fury as long as he is in combat?
The boost of +50 from hitting the Vengeful Lash is the only way i see his fury changing at all as it is.
Something should spend his fury if something else builds it! Or am I missing something? ^^
Yes, there is a cool down between his ulti. This is partly to keep him from using it as an instant way to reset all his cool downs/energy.

Several existing champions (such as Renekton or Tyrndamere) already use fury. Basically, the way it works is Fury is built with autoattacks. However, it decays when not autoattacking.


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SteelRonin

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01-30-2013

Chrono trigger's Glenn


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EpicFrogNinja

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01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapax47R View Post
Chrono trigger's Glenn
When I first made this, the similarities were completely accidental.

However, it just adds another side to the thematics of the champion. (like Talon and Assassin's Creed).


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Extra Pistol

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01-30-2013

Review #5: Zenn, the Frog Blade
Link your champion concept here for an in-depth review.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicFrogNinja View Post
Attachment 598596 Passive: Balanced Aspects
Zenn has a Light Aspect and a Dark Aspect, each with their own skillsets. His Light Aspect uses energy, while his Dark Aspect uses fury.

In his Light Aspect, Zenn will gain a 30 (+7 per level) shield every 35 seconds. The first enemy champion who does damage to the shield is silenced for 1 second.

In his Dark Aspect, every time Zenn takes damage, he gains AD equal to 10% of that damage for 5 seconds. This buff is stackable up to a cap of +50 AD.

Zenn starts the game in his Light Aspect. His ultimate changes his Aspect.
So he's a form changer, ala Nidalee/Jayce/Elise. I like that each form has an associated passive, though I feel like the delay on the shield is a bit restrictive. Malphite, for example, restores his shield after 10 seconds of taking no damage. The silence is a nice touch, specifically for someone who is supposed to be a tanky fighter type.

I really like the Dark Aspect passive for a bruiser type. It encourages you to build tanky so you can survive more attacks and thus get stronger without necessarily having to build glass cannon. This lays the ground for an interesting "in-the-fray", high-commitment fighter.

Quote:
Attachment 598601Attachment 598600Q: Steadfast Strike/Savage Slash

Steadfast Strike:
If Zenn is in his Light Aspect, his next basic attack will deal 40/60/80/100/120(+1.0) additional physical damage and stun the enemy for 0.8 seconds.

Cost: 70/65/60/55/50 energy
Cooldown: 14/13/12/11/10 seconds

Savage Slash:
If Zenn is in his Dark Aspect, his next basic attack will knock up the enemy and deal 40/60/80/100/120(+1.0) additional physical damage.

Additionally, this skill will deal 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5 further damage for each point of fury he has.

Cost: no cost
Cooldown: 14/13/12/11/10 seconds
An on-next whose additional attack scales 1-1? The interaction with the Dark passive is interesting, though typically you'd want the disable to be your opener if your intent is to make a brief trade. Stuns and knockups are similar, and since they are so short duration this may not be relevant, but remember that knockups can't be reduced by tenacity, where stuns can.

I can't shake the feeling that putting two functionally identical moves on a form-swapper seems like wasted potential. Why have alternate forms at all if they aren't truly distinct?

Quote:
Attachment 598604Attachment 598603W: Graceful Leap/Vengeful Lash

Graceful Leap:
If Zenn is in his Light Aspect, he will preform a frog leap to the target location, dealing 20/25/30/35/40 (+0.5) physical damage to nearby enemies. He restores 40 energy if he hits an enemy champion.

Cost: 80 energy
Cooldown: 20/18/16/14/12 seconds
Skillshot Range: 850
AoE Radius: 125

Vengeful Lash:
If Zenn is in his Dark Aspect, he will lash out his frog tongue in the target direction, dealing 20/25/30/35/40 (+0.7) physical damage to all enemies it passes through. If he hits an enemy champion, he will gain 10/20/30/40/50 fury and pull himself to them.

Cost: no cost
Cooldown: 16/15/14/13/12 seconds
Skillshot Range: 600
Again, these two abilities are very similar, with the exception of the Dark Aspect version being more risk-reward heavy and the Light Aspect being more defensive (can be used as an escape/positioning tool, especially since the damage is very underwhelming). Why is the omnidirectional leap 850 range while the bandage-toss (harder to use effectively) has a puny 600? This seems backwards, and a bit excessive. Reposition tools tend to be short range, and then extended based on the difficulty of use or context sensitivity (i.e. Riven's dash is very short but can be used whenever, Katarina's is longer because it requires a target, Lee Sin's Q/ Amumu's Bandage Toss requires connection with an enemy and is a skill shot, etc.)

Quote:
Attachment 598605Attachment 598606E: Inner Peace/Deep Hatred

Inner Peace:
If Zenn is in his Light Aspect, he will summon a giant lily pad at his location, which lasts for 8 seconds.

Zenn takes 5/10/15/20/25% reduced damage while standing on the lily pad. Enemies on the pad are slowed by 15%.

Skillshot Range: 700
AoE range: 300 radius
Cost: 65/60/55/50/45 energy
Cooldown: 16/15/14/13/12 seconds

Deep Hatred:
If Zenn is in his Dark Aspect, he will gain 20/25/30/35/40% extra crit chance and 5/10/15/20/25% attack speed.

The duration of the skill is 3 seconds, plus an additional second for every 25 fury he had when he cast it.

Cost: no cost
Cooldown:16/15/14/13/12 seconds
The slow on the lily pad is very low, and the area is really small. Combined, that would probably result in a really underwhelming effect. The damage reduction is nice, but he seems too mobile to warrant being incentivized for staying in a small zone. For this reason, the duration also seems excessive. Only an incredibly foolish (or uninformed) player would fight for 8 straight seconds in this area. Thematically, I also don't understand the slow for enemies stepping on the pad.

The Dark Aspect variant is a little better, but be careful with boosts to crit chance. Crit that you itemize for is reliable randomness: you will always have X crit chance. Gaining in in the form of a short-duration steroid can lead to no crits (no effect), or tons of crits (beyond intended effect), without being item-dependent. As for the attack speed, you literally would not notice a change until rank 3 or so. Attack speed steroids tend to be very high and very short in duration, giving them high visibility (See Fiora as a fantastic example) because otherwise they really fall flat. Kog'Maw doesn't get HUGE boosts from his passive, but it's also a passive effect that is always on.

Quote:
Attachment 598608R: Equilibrium

Zenn transforms into his Balanced Aspect.

In this form, he cannot use his abilties. However, he gains CC immunity and deals 8/10/12 true damage per second to all enemies around him.

Zenn can activate the ability again to end it early. Otherwise, it lasts for 3/4/5 seconds.

Once Equilibrium ends, Zenn will change into the Aspect opposite from which he cast the spell.

Cost: no cost
AoE radius: 275
Cooldown: 75/65/55 seconds
The true damage aura is very weak, and CC immunity isn't strong enough to warrant being unable to use abilities. In practice, I would probably use this to react to an incoming, predictable CC (which is actually kind of awesome and thematically appropriate for a Ninja-esque type) and then immediately switch it off. Simply put, this doesn't feel like an ult. If the point is to make a sudden form swap like Nidalee, then don't lock out abilities. I don't see a reason to do this, other than for some thematic reasoning.

I would remove the ability lock and amp up the damage. It doesn't have to be true damage, it can be standard magic damage and it'll serve as a temporary Sunfire Cape, which has uses, especially given how mobile he is in his current state.

Final Thoughts:
  • Make the forms unique, or remove the mechanic altogether.
    Right now both forms share functionally similar abilities. While there is something to be said for the coolness/power in chaining repeat casts (LeBlanc does this very well), it doesn't seem to work here, especially given the long cooldown of the "change" button. I'd focus on making one awesome, cohesive kit, and then if the form swap mechanic adds to those abilities, then yes, by all means try to work it in.
  • Play around with the character's theme.
    I'm also not getting a strong vibe one way or the other regarding the theme. "Frog" doesn't scream "Light vs. Dark", and neither does the differences between the abilities. I feel like reinforcement could be done in this department to make Zenn a more unique, stand-out individual. Though I will say League does not have frogs yet, so there's something.

What I Like:
  • The Dark Aspect passive effect would be awesome on a tank-bruiser type and has interesting gameplay.

Where to Improve:
  • Differentiate the Light and Dark aspects more strongly
  • Reduce restriction on the form-swapping process. A skilled player should be rewarded for being able to quickly think on the context of both kits, rather than being marked by an ability to cope with the limitations presented by their champion.


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EpicFrogNinja

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Senior Member

01-30-2013

Thanks for the extensive review! I'll be making some major changes over the next couple changes.