@Xyph, is resists being less effective than health in S3 bad design?

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Xypherous

Systems Designer

01-24-2013
25 of 27 Riot Posts

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BV never refreshes under a siege, and is more prone to be knocked off by an Udyr' phoenix wave than by something actually meaningful. If BV refreshed on 30 seconds CD again with no drawbacks and strictly applied to only single target effects it might be good again.
You know, at some point it'd actually be good to do an entire sweep of what we want spell shields to affect and revise it to like.. respect that.

Although the single target effect doesn't actually solve much - mostly because of things like Karthus who.. doesn't actually deal single target effects.

I think I mentioned this earlier before but I think I completely invalidated Catalyst with Flask. Oops.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

01-24-2013

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Originally Posted by PhailRaptor View Post
And yet, in 3 years of playing LoL, I've only built a Void Staff probably 3 or 4 times on AP mids, what originally was all I understood how to play, and a LW maybe 12 times on Ranged ADs. Sure, there were games where I knew I needed it, like when Singed and Jungle Malphite both had Frozen Heart and Randuin's. But the only time I even consider either item is if I see significant stacking against my damage type. Which, since Black Cleaver happened, is almost never.
Well then you're playing poorly.

Next time on Hashinshin tells you you're playing poorly: Players argued old madreds was good on AD carries.


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Afflictid

Senior Member

01-24-2013

With Health being the new go to stat, is there going to be anything along the lines of buffing AP Burst mages? With almost everyone running around with 3-4k health, my 1600-2k burst damage isn't going to do anything when I have to wait 20 seconds for my ult (Leblanc). Leblanc is pretty much completely out of the game, but other burst mages with some AoE are only slightly better.


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Cloud Potato

Senior Member

01-24-2013

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Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
Well then you're playing poorly.

Next time on Hashinshin tells you you're playing poorly: Players argued old madreds was good on AD carries.
You don't have to be so mean about it. But yeah, LW and VS increase your damage output a lot more than they seem to, even against medium Armor targets.


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Hammsuke

Senior Member

01-24-2013

AP champs get liandry's and AD champs get blade of the ruined king and say goodbye to the enemies HP.


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Sessamo

Senior Member

01-24-2013

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Originally Posted by Cloud Potato View Post
You don't have to be so mean about it. But yeah, LW and VS increase your damage output a lot more than they seem to, even against medium Armor targets.
That's like Hashinshin 101: nobody likes him, but he's not wrong.


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Bungboy

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Senior Member

01-24-2013

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Originally Posted by Sessamo View Post
Do you think BV would be a more popular pick if it were an active effect like Sivir/Nocturne?
It would be overpowered and there wouldn't be much counterplay, unless it had an incredibly long cooldown (we're talking like 2-3 minutes here).


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WhackedRak

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Senior Member

01-24-2013

As an aggressive poking support, i want to build catalyst early to eventually get Ohmwrecker, but the fact that flask and Philo exist derail me to better options.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Afflictid View Post
With Health being the new go to stat, is there going to be anything along the lines of buffing AP Burst mages? With almost everyone running around with 3-4k health, my 1600-2k burst damage isn't going to do anything.
The problem with burst mages is that Anivia is a burst mage. What can Leblanc possibly do other than launch nuclear warheads to compete with a mage who does similar damage on top of having support level utility?

And when leblanc DID launch nuclear warheads it wasn't very fun to fight.


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Raptamei

Senior Member

01-24-2013

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Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Not quite. Tank / CDR builds for example excel at dealing sustained damage through high base values on spells.

Tank / CDR Kha'zix deals roughly the same amount of damage as glass DPS Kha'zix through a fight - he does it in a less bursty fashion but base damages are multiplicative with survivability for higher overall damage output in the course of a fight.
Actually my point was that high dps champions that are easy to kill are much more of a priority target than low dps champions that are hard to kill. Building too tanky just tends to redirect all the damage to someone else instead, and tanky stats are useless when you do not actually get attacked.

People did learn their lesson during S1 and "don't focus the tank". Once you are so tanky (and deal so low dps) that you get ignored, building more defensively is pointless because it will only come into play when everyone else is dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Also, shields tend to already scale decently for team-fights with CDR and innate resistance gains. Resistances doesn't have to be the best form of mitigation for shields to stay relevant.
But you did just nerf shields by a significant amount. Does this not affect balance? (Indirect Janna nerf Q_Q)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
As to items being much less of a problem - one click is still one click too many.
I'm sure there is a way to communicate this through the health bar somehow. Anything can be visually communicated, including Dota rupture and maledict.

Anyway I'm not getting paid for thinking about solutions (yet).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
AD Casters displace AP mids because the AD Caster versus AP mid matchup is so lopsided in favor of AD Casters because the AP caster has no strategic itemization path to build. They are forced to take true damage for the entire laning phase.
Why does the "just build a negatron cloak nab" argument work against Leblanc but "just buy armor nab" does not work against Talon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
To me, that's actually incredibly exciting because then it'll be patently obvious that some things need to change to gain strategic variety where none exists. Something that I want to throw a lot of effort into so badly. :x
Start off by enabling more ways to win the game than the standard 40 minute lane-gank-siege-teamfight-baron progression. Enable push teams, earlygame gank teams, lategame turtle teams etc like Dota. This creates asymmetric goals (one team wants to push and win early, the other wants to turtle and win late) and therefore more dimensions for champion variety.