@Xyph, is resists being less effective than health in S3 bad design?

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hashinshin

Senior Member

01-24-2013

The biggest problem is that LW/VS are still core items that are fantastic for damage, and are *NOT* being used as counters to armor/MR. They're being used just willy nilly because they're so overpowered right now.

Udyr is great and fun till the enemy builds the LW/VS they were already building to kill squishies and it just happens to take 2000g of your stats off.

You're chasing tanks around with a hammer saying "BAD TANKS, BAD TANKS STOP BEING TANKY" but what happens when you actually have to buff them? Tanks started off the most OP class in Season 1 and have never had to be buffed as a class, but after 3 seasons of nerfs what happens when it finally catches up to you?


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EnderForHegemon

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Love your posts man, learning about the game, TY


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Cloud Potato

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sessamo View Post
I guess that's true. I personally haven't seen many MR values hitting 100+ until a bulwark is finished, but that could be a personal bias.
I personally feel like it's hard to ever really complain about AP itemization now that so many mages gain a form of sustained damage in addition to burst and utility, but I will concede that when so many players feel contrary I could be in the wrong.
The advantage AP has over AD is that their itemisation is more varied. If you want survivability, there is AP items to choose from. Damage and utility are the same. AD on the other hand is far more limited. You choose between damage, damage, and more damage. Items like Black Cleaver are changing this, though, but AD still is choked a lot more as far as itemisation goes. The fact that nearly every AD buys Bloodthirster somewhere is a testament to this.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

01-24-2013
23 of 27 Riot Posts

Quote:
The biggest problem is that LW/VS are still core items that are fantastic for damage, and are *NOT* being used as counters to armor/MR. They're being used just willy nilly because they're so overpowered right now.
Yeah - it's something that has been running through my head for a while but I'm not sure. Depending on my AD scaling versus base damage ratios - LW/VS may be the only damage add that I have in a lot of cases - aka Mordekaiser syndrome.

There is quite a bit of "splash" damage though, I agree.


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Raptamei

Senior Member

01-24-2013

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Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
In short, the way people feel about something typically isn't wrong - because something has caused them to feel that way - but it's just kind of our job to figure out what is causing them to feel that way and fix it if possible.
"If the players have a problem with something, they are usually right, if the players think they know why, they are usually wrong".
Remember?


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

01-24-2013
24 of 27 Riot Posts

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"If the players have a problem with something, they are usually right, if the players think they know why, they are usually wrong".
I remember. XD

I have since revised this statement to be "If human beings have a problem with something, they are usually right. If they think they know why, they are usually wrong" because I have found that it applies to designers as well. >_>


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PsionicApe

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Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thEDITION View Post
I just want to ask, but is there much point in tanky characters to build any type of MR other than merc treads, bulwark, and negatron cloaks? It seems that to build any item that gives a considerable amount of MR (for a tank) costs too much gold that could go into a better item - especially with how much MR negatrons give in the first place.

Maybe as a placebo you guys could lower the effectiveness of MR numerically and rise the amount gained from items to make players feel like they purchased something more worthwhile. Joking. kind of
25 second refreshing Banshee pokes its head in to say hello, but I agree that it is quite expensive when you consider the health/mana vs the mres/shield effect.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsionicApe View Post
25 second refreshing Banshee pokes its head in to say hello, but I agree that it is quite expensive when you consider the health/mana vs the mres/shield effect.
BV never refreshes under a siege, and is more prone to be knocked off by an Udyr' phoenix wave than by something actually meaningful. If BV refreshed on 30 seconds CD again with no drawbacks and strictly applied to only single target effects it might be good again.

The biggest difference between DotA and LoL is that in LoL you have to defend your spellshield, where as in DotA your spell shield defends you. In LoL you spend most of your time trying to not fight and not get AOE'd so you can actually have your spell shield hit something meaningful. In DotA you run in and know it's going to block whatever they throw at you.


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PhailRaptor

Adjudicator

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
The biggest problem is that LW/VS are still core items that are fantastic for damage, and are *NOT* being used as counters to armor/MR. They're being used just willy nilly because they're so overpowered right now.
And yet, in 3 years of playing LoL, I've only built a Void Staff probably 3 or 4 times on AP mids, what originally was all I understood how to play, and a LW maybe 12 times on Ranged ADs. Sure, there were games where I knew I needed it, like when Singed and Jungle Malphite both had Frozen Heart and Randuin's. But the only time I even consider either item is if I see significant stacking against my damage type. Which, since Black Cleaver happened, is almost never.


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Sessamo

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
BV never refreshes under a siege, and is more prone to be knocked off by an Udyr' phoenix wave than by something actually meaningful. If BV refreshed on 30 seconds CD again with no drawbacks and strictly applied to only single target effects it might be good again.
Do you think BV would be a more popular pick if it were an active effect like Sivir/Nocturne?